A battery just for the audio

AKHILF

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So a while back I started a thread on alts. Well now I know a guy that has a Stinger SPP1500D. http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=hQQBT-aLL8vZiAKO5aHiDg&ved=0CJkBEPMCMAY
I can get it for around $120 but I dont know if there even worth it in my case. I would but it in the tool box in the bed and run a 0/1 gauge wire to it from one of my batteries up front after doing the big 3. I really think I need to do the big three first and see where that puts me for volts. Then maybe upgrade the alt. i'm sure i'd need the upgraded alt with another battery to keep up but I may be wrong. I just dont really want to pass up on this deal if it will help. My goal is to be around the 14.4 volts to get the most out of it and not worry about frying it at low volts. Any guys on here hooked up a battery just for there system?
 

Worstenemy453

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If you want to sustain 14.4 at all times, then you need an alternator.

Low voltage will kill amps at around 10 volts give or take, it depends on the amp. And voltage at the battery will not be voltage at the amp. You need to run a voltage gauge right to your inputs on your amp to monitor that.
 

TANK'S 250

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couldn't you just add capacitors?...I used to run them with my old set-up....no power loss.

Something like this;

Boss Audio CAP3.5B 3.5 Farad Capacitor Digital Voltage Meter Black

$38.95
2-or-More-Farad-CAP3.5B-main-image.jpg
 

SoCalPSD

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I run 2 2 farad caps in my truck in. One infront of both my 1500watt amps an I have no problem at all. No need for a third bat.

Edit: and that's in my little yota 100 with a stock alternator an 1 bat
Fat fingered from the phone-Corey
 
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UNBROKEN

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LOL
If y'all think those capacitors are doing a god damned thing to help I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell ya.

Seriously...study how a vehicle charging system works and how a capacitor works...then you'll know you wasted yor money.
Your amps already have capacitors in them for transient notes that need that extra power.
I find it hilarious that people still buy and use them knowing what we know now about how they REALLY work...or don't as it were.
 

UNBROKEN

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Since I know the guys that "use" them wont do any research I'll leave you with this....
You have 2 batteries in a diesel truck...say they're 950 cca each.
That's roughly the equivelant of a 1000 farad capacitor EACH.
That's 2000 farads of storage ability....what in the hell do you think a 1 or 2 farad capacitor is gonna help?
 

Worstenemy453

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"Why caps don't do much good - the extremely short and basic version.

Let's imagine a car with a 12v battery and an alternator putting out 14v. This car also has a 1000watt amp powering some random sub.
We now add a 1 farad capacitor.

A 1 farad cap charged to 14v stores about 84 joules.
Since we have the battery sitting at 12v, the potential (useable power) of the cap is 2v or 12 joules.
We CANNOT use more than the 12 joules, since that would put the cap below the magical 12v where the battery kicks in.

In order to use the power stored in the cap, we would have to turn off the alternator, or the power it outputs would somehow have to drop - like if it's overloaded (BAD).

Note: 1 joule = 1 watt-second. 1000w for one second is 1000 joule.

Anyway, our 1 farad cap has 12 joules of power we can actually use. this translates into 12 watt-seconds. This can power our 1000w amp for 12/1000s of a second, or 0.012seconds.
This means that if we charge the cap to 14v, and turn off the alternator, we can play a single test tone of 83hz one single time before the cap becomes useless.

Since I'm not at all an expert on this, I have neglected to mention ESR and ESL, which would significantly reduce the benefit we get from the cap.
Because of ESR (ElectroStatic Resistance), an amount of power will be converted into heat in the cap. The more power you try to pull, the more heat and the less useful it is.
Additionally, the amp will convert some amount of power into heat - alle depending on the amp.

In the end, the cap may give us as much as .005 seconds (single 200hz tone) of power at 1000w amp output, IF the alternator suddenly dies or for some magical reason (it's overloaded, duh) it drops it's output to 12v. If you only run 500W, it would be about 0.01 second or a single 100hz test tone."


This is not my words. Found a good explantion while looking for the original explantion.
 

Worstenemy453

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Since I know the guys that "use" them wont do any research I'll leave you with this....
You have 2 batteries in a diesel truck...say they're 950 cca each.
That's roughly the equivelant of a 1000 farad capacitor EACH.
That's 2000 farads of storage ability....what in the hell do you think a 1 or 2 farad capacitor is gonna help?

While i agree with you on caps i will need to point out, that in an audio system, CCA's arent always the best rating to judge a battery on. Its relavent though.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/wiri...d-we-care-about-car-audio-cca-ah-esr-etc.html
 

UNBROKEN

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Just using the size to make a point since most of us run batteries about that size.
 

Spastik monkey

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First off, what all are you running amp wise?

You are correct, doing the big 3, and well as running 1/0 to your amplifiers will eliminate some of your problems.

As for capacitors, they are only a bandaid, they do not fix the issue. Think of your system as a toilet. When a large bass note hits, you have flushed the toilet. Your batteries/alternator are the water supply from the water company. They can be as big as you want, but they are still limited by the piping in your house. The pipes are your wire. The bigger the pipe, the more water can flow faster. Capacitors are like your toilet tank. They hold a reserve for when the big flush hits. However, like any toilet, they have to recharge before they can flush again. All of this puts additional strain on your charging system. As far a capacitors go, anything less than a 5 farad is worthless, with few exceptions.

I hope this helps explain everything. It's almost 1am over here and i'm kinda tired.
 

TANK'S 250

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LOL
If y'all think those capacitors are doing a god damned thing to help I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell ya.

Seriously...study how a vehicle charging system works and how a capacitor works...then you'll know you wasted yor money.
Your amps already have capacitors in them for transient notes that need that extra power.
I find it hilarious that people still buy and use them knowing what we know now about how they REALLY work...or don't as it were.

Since I know the guys that "use" them wont do any research I'll leave you with this....
You have 2 batteries in a diesel truck...say they're 950 cca each.
That's roughly the equivelant of a 1000 farad capacitor EACH.
That's 2000 farads of storage ability....what in the hell do you think a 1 or 2 farad capacitor is gonna help?

Ummm...you are kinda right....but slightly more wrong....especially for what the OP wants...

.....you might want to study up a little bit...


...I'll go with Steve Meade's advice on capacitors.....he seems to build tiny audio systems...LOL




"Holy Cow there's a bunch of mis-information in this thread about caps. Caps work - period. But how? Simple . . . capacitors do TWO things:

1. Store charge
2. Oppose changes in voltage

Now, both of those things sound mighty nice to me. To understand how a cap benefits a car audio system, one has to first understand that there are TWO separate voltage plateaus available in an automobile:

1. A 1 Farad capacitor can store and release 72 Joules (watt*second) of energy at 12 Volts.
2. Said capacitor can charge and discharge hundreds of times faster than an automitive battery of any kind.
3. Capacitors present nearly no load to a properly set up charging system.
4. Automotive batteries require 7 to 10 amps of current EACH to allow charge to flow into them.
5. Capacitors work GREAT for every day street systems.
6. The benefits or capacitors are negated in SPL competitions.



1. Running - With the alternator charging, voltages will typically be from 13.8 to 14.4 VDC
2. Not running - With the alternator IDLE, voltages will typically be from 12.0 to 12.6 VDC

I'll take the higher of the two any day. For UNREGULATED amps, this allows them to draw MORE current therby making more power. For REGULATED amps, this allows them to draw LESS current to make their rated power. Either way, it's a WIN for you. So, how do we ensure the higher of the two?

Again, simple. With the vehicle running, consider the DELTA between what the alternator can make and what the nominal voltage the batteries can provide is. For this example, lets assume 14.4 VDC - 12.6 VDC = 1.8 VDC. When we exceed the current output capability of the alternator, it's voltage output is compromised. In some cases, heavy demands of amplifiers can far exceed the current capability of the alternator, leaving us with only the reserve of current within the battery. But, car batteries weren't intended to power amplifiers . . . they were intended to start cars [Battery = Load with vehicle running.] A really fresh car battery can do this for a while, but given that we're exceeding the output capability of the alternator, it's charge isn't getting replenished quickly enough - need about 13.0 VDC minimum to allow charge to flow back into the battery.

A properly sized capacitor will change the rules. With the vehicle running, it stores charge at the higher voltage plateau - 14.4 Volts. As the amplifiers demand current, it will flow from the place of least resistance . . . Ohm's Law tells us that happens to be the place with the highest voltage. That will be in order:

1. The capacitor (closest)
2. The alternator
3. The battery

Ideally, you've selected the correct size capacitor for your system's needs. And . . . that "30F" cap that sells for $59 in a blue velvet box with chrome and a big blue LED readout is just a glorified volt meter These devices have ZERO benefit. There is a reason why quality capacitors cost money, and ours are no exception. These are the facts:

For best results, I recommend locating capacitors within a foot of the amplifier - as in, no more than 12 inches of wire between the capacitor and the amplifier. The further away from the amp they are, the less of a benefit they offer.


That's why caps are used in all the SPL vehicles. Do caps work? Of course, they have a place and a purpose. It is using the product correctly. But the disdain for caps stems not from not knowing its proper function, but rather they are sold and advertised as a save all for systems merely so shops can make money at a ridiculous mark up. Thinking they are completely useless is balanced out by those who think they are the end all. There is fact a point where current and output exceed the point where capacitance is an effective option: be it cost effective, space effective, and current effective"



.
 
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AKHILF

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So that cap you first mentioned is worthless. I'm sure some people have good luck with them but there wont be one in this truck. If anything it would be the battery thats just for audio. But first thing will be the big three then the upgraded alt. I should be ok at that point.
 

UNBROKEN

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Jay...Steve fuggin SELLS capacitors. Of course he's gonna say how awesome they are. Never mind you just skipped over another post showing you exactly how long they can actually function before they're drained.
I can show you multiple other links with electrical engineers telling you the same thing...but I'm sure you'll believe the salesman because his words coincide with what you want to believe.

Will a capacitor hold a charge and discharge it when called upon?
Absolutely....for about 1/2 a split second.

Then what? Oh...it has to RECHARGE. Well...what's my alternator supplying power to now?
Not my stereo that's for damned sure....
 

Worstenemy453

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So that cap you first mentioned is worthless. I'm sure some people have good luck with them but there wont be one in this truck. If anything it would be the battery thats just for audio. But first thing will be the big three then the upgraded alt. I should be ok at that point.

Big 3 and an alternator and you wont need the band aid capacitor. No need to waste money hiding a problem when you can fix the problem.

And tank, no offense but i would never take anything steve meade says seriously. His new distortion detector thingy ma jig is all the reason i need to know he doesnt care about anythig but profits
 

907DAVE

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Never understood how a capacitor could ever change the charging rate of an alternator "theory", so I am on Rich's side here.
 

jdc753

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Just say no to caps!!

I would hope to think you can run that 2500 without adding a battery since we have a pair stock and a generally robust electrical system compared to most of the cars and little suv's that run around with that same amp or bigger. BUT with that being said you are moving in the right direction for if you still have voltage drops after doing the big 3 and an alt.

Stinger makes good stuff and also Kinitek, and lots of guys would use optima yellow tops. Sadly its been too long since I have really studied up on the car audio so I can't totally remember the rules of thumb and proper ways to install a dedication audio battery. Only thing I can remember is putting the battery as close as possible to the amp, of course proper fusing, and if I remember right adding in a diode downstream of the batter so that the truck can't call on it as a starting battery and that it is isolated to being just for audio.
 

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