Boost reference on the fuel regulator

Big Bore

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Anyone using it? What pressures? Mine has the port, and I've contemplated using it before but sidelined the idea. Now I've come back around to it. Pros/Cons?
 

Tom S

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I did not pick that route because if the diaphram decided to leak it would dump fuel into the intake. I do not know how ugly that could get but.....
 

Tree Trimmer

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you can always use a air pressure regulator to regulate how much boost the fuel regulator gets, thus saving the diaphram.

i have mine set to 40/62. if you had a turbo that seen 40psi, you would need a way to make it not see 80psi.

some chatting with some smart ppl, has lead me to believe that the lowest you want to go is 40. normal driving, no lead foot, what do you need high pressure for? your not using hardly any fuel.

i dont know what the max you want to send to the diaphram is though. i have the fuelab reg and it has held up to my 22 psi for a year now, fwiw.

if your concerned about the max pressure though, you could always do 45/60 or 50/60.

pretty much the point of boost reference, as far as im concerned, is to help save the fuel pump. if i can take some strain off the pump, when i dont need the high pressure, why not?
 

Charles

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My diaphragm ruptured the other day. If I had been running a reference to the manifold the engine would have run away and destroyed itself.

Add that as a bold/italicized item on the "con" list.
 

UNBROKEN

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I've had the same Fuel Lab regulator boost referenced since 2005....on the first motor it was set at 45, turbo made another 45 so it saw close to 90 psi.
Current motor is set to ~25 psi, turbos make another 70....

Never have had an issue.
 

TARM

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In looking at the entire gasser turbo perf world boost ref is used overwhelmingly from what I can see.

I think it would also go a long way in increasing the ****ting electric fuel pump lifes with the high perf high pressure high flow we ask out of our pumps. When you consider a DD setup likely only needs max pressure a small fraction of the total pump flow time. Being able to have pressure dropped to 45psi 80-90% time compared to running 65-75psi 100% of the time I would think would have a postive effect on pump life.
 

Charles

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In looking at the entire gasser turbo perf world boost ref is used overwhelmingly from what I can see.

I think it would also go a long way in increasing the ****ting electric fuel pump lifes with the high perf high pressure high flow we ask out of our pumps. When you consider a DD setup likely only needs max pressure a small fraction of the total pump flow time. Being able to have pressure dropped to 45psi 80-90% time compared to running 65-75psi 100% of the time I would think would have a postive effect on pump life.


I would love to see the dyno results between 45psi and 60 or 70 or whatever people think works better.

I've consistently made 0.00 additional horsepower with more pressure. I run 60 because I had to pick a number. It doesn't honestly matter. Why run the risk of a runaway for no gain?
 

Tom S

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Charles how much fuel did the regulator piss out when it ruptured?
 

Tree Trimmer

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I would love to see the dyno results between 45psi and 60 or 70 or whatever people think works better.

I've consistently made 0.00 additional horsepower with more pressure. I run 60 because I had to pick a number. It doesn't honestly matter. Why run the risk of a runaway for no gain?

how much fuel pressure does it take to keep the injectors full at wot at 3k rpm? use your truck as a reference. seems to me that 45 psi would just be trickling in for your inj's up top on your truck......when its running. :doh:
 

TARM

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I would love to see the dyno results between 45psi and 60 or 70 or whatever people think works better.

I've consistently made 0.00 additional horsepower with more pressure. I run 60 because I had to pick a number. It doesn't honestly matter. Why run the risk of a runaway for no gain?



While it may not have effected your hp I do wonder once over 3k on motors that are running all the pw they have window for with 400% and larger nozzles if they are getting complete refills @ only 45 psi. I do not know where that wall is but as rpms go up the window to refill goes down. Considering a fixed injection volume or pw icp the more minimum pressure you are going to need to refill the same volume. That may not show up on a 3 second wot dyno run but in a 1/4 or on the street that lose would become cumulative and you could end up with an issue.


While there are always possibilities. Of issues such as runaway fueling has it ever happened that anyone can recall where someone blew the diaphram and ended up blowing their engine from it? (BTW that was not meant to be retorical or a SA comment)

Not saying it can not happen but wouldn't you think if this was a reasonable risk you would see more posted on it by the gassers etc. I would think a check valve in the air regulator would eliminate much of the risk as would the choice of boost tap location to make sure gravity would take it away from not into the heads.

Also as we are using boost not vaccum a leaking diaphragm would have the fuel pushed out of it by the boost not up the line and if the leak was so large to put fuel say the full fuel pressure to the hose woukd that not cuase a huge drop in fuel pressure into the heads and thus injectors. I would think a one way air/fluid/oil check valve between the air reg and fuel reg would remove most all the threat of fuel blowing into the manifolds. Not sure if they are diesel compatable but are made of an alloy for use with air/water/and oilsa nd can be had for 6-10 dollars. Its not like we are looking for long term exposure here anyways just a stop gap to preventis in the smal chance it happens.

Especially for pumps that use brushes and culmulators etc the lower the pressure the lower the volts the less eroding wear of the parts. On any motor the less work the longer the duty life. Being able to run 45psi instead of 40% all but at those times under boost that much longer the pumps live as I see it. Maybe I am wrong but it makes sense at least on its face to me.


45 psi base pressure boost ref port > hose > one way check valve > hose > air reg set to 20 psi (or boost fooler would work as well) would set max fuel psi to 65psi @ 20 psi boost and higher > hose > boost tap locaton.

If one of the first sections was clear hose you would have clear sight of any fuel infiltration at a glance. As long as it can handle 20 psi and the heat right at the reg which is not bad where mine is at it should be ok I would think. Have not looked to see what ratings clear hose can have.
 
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PsRumors

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I had a diaphram in a Aero 1000 rupture on an '84 GT Turbo. It dribbled out fuel, there wasn't enough coming out to see any enrichment on the wideband. When I pulled the regulator apart I expected to see a pin hole, rather it was a big slit.

Not sure if enough fuel could come out to make a runaway problem but a one way check valve would be a safe bet.
 

Charles

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Charles how much fuel did the regulator piss out when it ruptured?


It was running off the back of the engine and pouring out on the ground with smoke trails following it and smoke coming out the hood seams.

It would have run away hard core.
 

Charles

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While it may not have effected your hp I do wonder once over 3k on motors that are running all the pw they have window for with 400% and larger nozzles if they are getting complete refills @ only 45 psi. I do not know where that wall is but as rpms go up the window to refill goes down. Considering a fixed injection volume or pw icp the more minimum pressure you are going to need to refill the same volume. That may not show up on a 3 second wot dyno run but in a 1/4 or on the street that lose would become cumulative and you could end up with an issue.


While there are always possibilities. Of issues such as runaway fueling has it ever happened that anyone can recall where someone blew the diaphram and ended up blowing their engine from it? (BTW that was not meant to be retorical or a SA comment)

Not saying it can not happen but wouldn't you think if this was a reasonable risk you would see more posted on it by the gassers etc. I would think a check valve in the air regulator would eliminate much of the risk as would the choice of boost tap location to make sure gravity would take it away from not into the heads.

Also as we are using boost not vaccum a leaking diaphragm would have the fuel pushed out of it by the boost not up the line and if the leak was so large to put fuel say the full fuel pressure to the hose woukd that not cuase a huge drop in fuel pressure into the heads and thus injectors. I would think a one way air/fluid/oil check valve between the air reg and fuel reg would remove most all the threat of fuel blowing into the manifolds. Not sure if they are diesel compatable but are made of an alloy for use with air/water/and oilsa nd can be had for 6-10 dollars. Its not like we are looking for long term exposure here anyways just a stop gap to preventis in the smal chance it happens.

Especially for pumps that use brushes and culmulators etc the lower the pressure the lower the volts the less eroding wear of the parts. On any motor the less work the longer the duty life. Being able to run 45psi instead of 40% all but at those times under boost that much longer the pumps live as I see it. Maybe I am wrong but it makes sense at least on its face to me.


45 psi base pressure boost ref port > hose > one way check valve > hose > air reg set to 20 psi (or boost fooler would work as well) would set max fuel psi to 65psi @ 20 psi boost and higher > hose > boost tap locaton.

If one of the first sections was clear hose you would have clear sight of any fuel infiltration at a glance. As long as it can handle 20 psi and the heat right at the reg which is not bad where mine is at it should be ok I would think. Have not looked to see what ratings clear hose can have.



Gassers can't run away, lol. You shut the throttle and it goes fat and dies...

Worst case you turn the key and the spark ends.

Secondly, on a gasser the fuel pressure is the "injection" pressure as well. So with the fuel and air pressures being very, very close to one another it actually has a measurable effect on the pressure delta across the nozzle, and has a MASSIVE effect on the injection quanity, all else constant. So the pressure must be referenced to changing manifold pressure.

On our trucks, first off, we can't stop an engine that is being fed diesel fuel without cutting off the air. If a large pocket of diesel pooled, say in the intercooler, before it got picked up and started running away, you could kiss it. 7000+ rpm here you come.

Lastly.... we don't need to boost reference our fuel. The reason gassers do it simply does not apply. Our injection pressure is EXACTLY the same whether our delivery pressure is 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100...... so on and so forth. We inject 0.00 additional mm of fuel with any additional delivery pressure as well.

On a gasser, you up the delivery pressure 10psi and you just made a MASSIVE change to injection quantity. Especially with a larger injector. It simply doesn't happen here. Not applicable in that way.

So the comparisons to gassers mean nothing. The only justification for doing it on one of these trucks is pump life. And with a brushed pump.... that might make sense. Luckily we have brushless pumps now though. So we can just set the pressure where we want it and leave it alone without any connections between our fuel system and our intake manifold to potentially rev our engine out of sight without any benefit otherwise.
 

Gearhead

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I run an old school 20 PSI dual popoff valve to my regulator with a .025 orifice between the blowoff valve and the manifold. The orifice prevents flow from causing a big boost loss and would also limit the fuel comming into the intake and would start spilling fuel out of the dual popoffs since the pressure would start to build between the regulator and the orifice.
 

Charles

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I run an old school 20 PSI dual popoff valve to my regulator with a .025 orifice between the blowoff valve and the manifold. The orifice prevents flow from causing a big boost loss and would also limit the fuel comming into the intake and would start spilling fuel out of the dual popoffs since the pressure would start to build between the regulator and the orifice.


As long as there is nowhere for the fuel to puddle that's fine. If someone ran the reference ahead of the intercooler it could be a dribble and still fill the cooler while the truck was idling one day, then when they took off... rrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... BOOM!

lol.
 

TurboM700

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I'm with Chuck on this one. Its does nothing for you and the chance even thought it may be small is not worth having a run away motor.

Like Chuck has stated all we need to do is keep the injector filled with clean fuel thats all. If that is done with 45psi then thats all it needs. Remember pressure is the amount of restriction you have. Design a fuel system with less restriction and you can run 45 psi. Granted I run 60psi in my system but I dont boost reference it.

MIke
 

Charles

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I'm in. Where do I get this mod?


It's super easy. Remove your driver's side CAC tube from the intake spyder/compressor outlet and rotate it upward. Pour 1 gallon of #2 diesel or equivalent into CAC tube.

Reinstall tube onto intake spyder/compressor outlet. Crank engine.


If high rpm mod does not self-initiate, then gently rev engine to approx 1000rpm and enjoy...
 

Big Bore

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It's super easy. Remove your driver's side CAC tube from the intake spyder/compressor outlet and rotate it upward. Pour 1 gallon of #2 diesel or equivalent into CAC tube.

Reinstall tube onto intake spyder/compressor outlet. Crank engine.


If high rpm mod does not self-initiate, then gently rev engine to approx 1000rpm and enjoy...

Next time I have the tubes off I'm going to take a pic doing that and call it the Chucky high rpm mod "before pic". After pic will be a mushroom cloud.

:rockon:
 

Charles

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Next time I have the tubes off I'm going to take a pic doing that and call it the Chucky high rpm mod "before pic". After pic will be a mushroom cloud.

:rockon:


I hope to see a sled hooked to the truck in the background. Just back up to the sled, then when the guy's hooking everything up you pop the hood, hop out and fill the intercooler, then cinch down the clamp, slam the hood, hop back in and win the 3.0 class by a landslide...

;)
 

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