5R110 or NV5600?

WILD_PHIL

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I have decided to sell my wifes car, give her my 6.4 and finish my Cummins conversion and drive my 05 daily. I have the complete kit and I am only a few full days away from finishing it. I just havent had time. Anyhow the truck only has 70k miles on it, but I am wondering if it would be better to have a 5600 or the 5R110. I will be building this cummins up. Twins, sticks, studs, fuel, all that good stuff. I am certain I can sell the adapter plate, trans controller, and transmission for enough to buy a 5600, but wanted to come to the experts first. Is it even worth the headache? Thanks for any help in advance.
 

94.5 Stroker

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If you are doing a 12v you will need a pcs to control the tranny. Next thing is do you like shifting all the time? The 5600 is prolly gonna be the cheap way to go in the long run behind a built motor, but depending on how you drive the clutches might not last as long as they should.
 

Black_Pstroke

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Most of the research I have done on this people are either using a 4r100 or a 48re dodge trans. Not many people using the 5r behind the cummings. I'm sure some more experienced people will chime in though.
 

Matt_P

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Definitely dont use a 5r they are a disaster to try and make work behind a cummins
 

WILD_PHIL

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Ok..... I do have the PCS controller. I literally have the whole kit. My main concern was all the trans tuning that would have to be done. I am putting a 12v on it. Shifting gears isnt an issue. I just sold my 3rd gen with the G56 this past summer, so I am use to it.
 

Matt_P

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Ok..... I do have the PCS controller. I literally have the whole kit. My main concern was all the trans tuning that would have to be done. I am putting a 12v on it. Shifting gears isnt an issue. I just sold my 3rd gen with the G56 this past summer, so I am use to it.

Yeah the issue is they are a pain to get tuned right and there is not many people that have had good luck with keeping a 5r together behind a cummins either. Thats why I ditched the idea of running it behind mine and went to a 47re instead
 

Matt_P

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So how are you conrtolling the 47re? Is it easier to hook up the 47re over the 5600?

I made my own wiring harness and use the stock dodge PCM to control the transmission. It was a lot more work and research but I have $275 in that instead of 1800 in a suncoast valve body and PCS. Id say the 5600 is going to be easier minus cutting a hole in the floor but I wanted an auto for daily driving
 

WILD_PHIL

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Honestly I would rather have a standard. I bought all this 5R110 crap because it came part of a deal that I couldnt pass up. Guess I will get some pics of this stuff and post it up for sale. How bout making all your gauges work Matt?
 

Matt_P

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Honestly I would rather have a standard. I bought all this 5R110 crap because it came part of a deal that I couldnt pass up. Guess I will get some pics of this stuff and post it up for sale. How bout making all your gauges work Matt?

Speedo will work no matter what along with the fuel gauge, coolant temp was just a matter of wiring it up to the engine, but i dont really use it, it was just so it worked, I have an aftermarket one above my rearview mirror thats dead on. The trans temp I didnt hook up and I didnt hook up oil pressure either because I ran aftermarket gauges that are much more accurate for those as well

I have my tach kit all wired up but still need to make a mount for it because the engine speed sensor I used for the transmission took the place of the regular mounting location for the tach pickup
 

Mark Kovalsky

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Yeah the issue is they are a pain to get tuned right and there is not many people that have had good luck with keeping a 5r together behind a cummins either. Thats why I ditched the idea of running it behind mine and went to a 47re instead

It's WAY harder to make software shift a TorqShift than a 4R100, due to the design of the two transmissions.

The 4R100 is an all non-synchronous design. This means that for each upshift all that happens is a clutch is applied. All you need to do is control the pressure to the oncoming clutch and you're all set.

The TorqShift is MUCH more complicated. The 1-2 and 5-6 shifts are the same, they are non-synchronous and all you need to do is control the pressure of the*OD*clutch. The other shifts are the problem.

The 2-3 is a swap shift. This is a special category of difficult shift. I believe Ford is the only trans maker in the world that still does swap shifts. Others have put swap shift transmissions in production and then replaced them within a few years. To make a swap shift the TorqShift needs to release the*OD*clutch to downshift the*OD*gearset while applying the intermediate clutch to upshift the Simpson planetary gearset. This is an upshift and a downshift occurring at the same time in the same trans. From my experience these two shifts MUST complete within 30 milliseconds of each other or it's going to feel awful. If the*OD*releases too soon the engine speed will flare. The amount of flare is dependent on how much sooner it completes. If it completes before the intermediate has enough capacity the trans goes back to first gear! Then it has to make a 1-3 shift. A few*WOT*1-3 shifts means the trans comes out to replace the intermediate clutch. Been there, done that. If the*OD*releases after the intermediate comes on you end up in 4th gear (1.09:1 ratio) then downshift back to third gear (1.54:1 ratio.) Either way it's really bad.

Now if you made it though that you need to make a 3-5 shift. 4th gear is the 1.09:1 ratio that really isn't used. The 3-5 is a synchronous shift. It's timing requirements are about the same as the swap shift, but there is no downshift. To make the shift the intermediate clutch has to release while the direct clutch applies. If the intermediate releases too soon you get an engine speed flare. If the intermediate releases too late you get a tie up. A tie up is when all three pieces of the planetary gear set are held from turning. This means the output shaft of the trans STOPS. That's not a pleasant thing to have happen when you're at*WOT*making a 3-5 shift. You can lock the wheels on an upshift! I've done this, too. You can also break expen$ive parts doing a tie up. Been there, done that, too.

Now start thinking of the combination shifts that can happen. How about cruising at 55 MPH behind some slow poke on a two lane road? A passing zone opens and you floor it. Now you may want to go from 6th to 3rd gear. You need to release the direct clutch and apply the intermediate. That's a synchronous shift in reverse.

As you can see from just these few examples it isn't a trivial task to make one of these transmissions shift. It's what I did at Ford for quite a few years, three of them working on the TorqShift. I'd be really surprised if anyone makes a controller for the TorqShift that works really well. I think someone could make one that does some basic shifting, but getting one so that it shifts at least as well as a stock trans is going to be a HUGE task.
 

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