Engine rebuild options

jkidd_39

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I put a fancy hole in a piston on my f-450.

Ford is handling it under warranty (hopefully)

While the engine is apart are there any thing I should do to improve my reliability? This is a work truck. I don't feel the need to go crazy on a truck I really like driving. I'd rather roll my 7.3 and get great fuel economy for DD driving.

I have Kem tunes, s&b intake. Elite studs and elite full egr delete w/ 4 inch dp.

I will probably pull my egr delete and go to block off plates. I do not see any advantage for back pressure reduction.

So if anyone wants a used kit pm me.

I was thinking possibly a cam.

What do y'all think?

Thanks guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk while pulling a 36ft gooseneck and not paying attention to the road.
 

jdgleason

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:whs: unless ford wont put it back together with that stuff then I could see where youre coming from. Studs for sure though.
 

White_monster

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Ceramic coat the pistons. Stock cam and fuel system. The egr delete with wastegate is good and you should keep it on. Pm me if you want to sell it as I know someone that might want it. Good luck.
 

Spatel23

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Valvetrain and pushrods would be great reliability mods since you already have studs and an egr delete.

Since they are going to have to take the heads off, make sure they check them and have them resufaced if need be. Most dealers leave this part out and it is very important. You may also want to get hardened valve seats while you have the heads off since they are prone to cracking.

A cam will do nothing to improve reliability.

As mentioned above, Id get the pistons ceramic coated for sure.

What caused the piston failure?
 

jkidd_39

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Well after talking to my mechanic.. he seems to think Ford will just send me a new short block.. So i guess I'm not gonna be able to coat the pistons.. I'll keep y'all updated and get some pics of the damage.

Also, someone please explain to my why the wastegate is better than block off plates.. I can totally close off my wastegate and still can't get my backpressure anywhere near dangerous levels..
 

Erikclaw

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Do you just run the smaller tunes. If you plan to run the high hp ones, wg is needed to keep back pressure under control. Since you already have it, I would keep it on. It will help if you ever decide to go bigger.
 

jkidd_39

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Do you just run the smaller tunes. If you plan to run the high hp ones, wg is needed to keep back pressure under control. Since you already have it, I would keep it on. It will help if you ever decide to go bigger.

I run the 210 tow performance 95% of the time. This truck has 4.88 gears.. it's either working or sitting. There is no daily driving this truck. It eats too much fuel. The other 5% I run the 345 KEM tune. In either situation I don't see backpressure levels that worry me

you must have a cool dealer if they are handling the cost after its been tuned.

I sell alot of parts for him. And I'll be the one removing all the Non-OEM parts and bringing the stock stuff back.. it's kind of a hassle. Besides.. if you were a mechanic and had the option of an egr delete vs. putting back in those darn egr coolers..
 

BFT

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after pulling my stuff off with the cab on, i know i wont be putting it back.
i think the EGR is as useless on a diesel as tits are on a bull
 

jkidd_39

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after pulling my stuff off with the cab on, i know i wont be putting it back.
i think the EGR is as useless on a diesel as tits are on a bull

I agree. I'm gonna go w/ block off plates. The wastegate just isn't needed for my set up.

In all reality I hate this truck. A F-450 is just a pig. at 200k when the warranty runs out I will definatly sell this truck.

Prob go 6.7 by then...
 

jkidd_39

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How do you turn off the wastegate in your testing?
PHP:

I turn the regulator to keep the wastegate closed. Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the spring hold the gate closed?

Regardless I am not seeing backpressure levels that are too high no matter what I do with my regulator. The only thing I can do is make it bleed way to much and have no balls haha..

I am not saying the waste gate isn't a good system. I just don't think it is worth the money I spent on it.

Keep in mind this truck is for work. With a 22k material handler on my 7k gooseneck (45k gross) in 210tp KEM tune I am not seeing levels that worry me. My oil temp is more worrisome when pulling this heavy.

I think block off plates will do a good job of keeping my backpressure down while deleting my egr system. I'd rather take the cash from the wastegate kit and use it on something else.

Correct me if I am wrong guy.. I'm sure you all know better than me.
 

lubeowner

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I turn the regulator to keep the wastegate closed. Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the spring hold the gate closed?

Regardless I am not seeing backpressure levels that are too high no matter what I do with my regulator. The only thing I can do is make it bleed way to much and have no balls haha..

I am not saying the waste gate isn't a good system. I just don't think it is worth the money I spent on it.

Keep in mind this truck is for work. With a 22k material handler on my 7k gooseneck (45k gross) in 210tp KEM tune I am not seeing levels that worry me. My oil temp is more worrisome when pulling this heavy.

I think block off plates will do a good job of keeping my backpressure down while deleting my egr system. I'd rather take the cash from the wastegate kit and use it on something else.

Correct me if I am wrong guy.. I'm sure you all know better than me.

Think about this, when you use boost to control the wastegate and turn the controller all the way up you end up with equal pressure on both sides of the diaphragm. This equal pressure in theory should make no difference in the way the diaphragm controls the wastegate, so the diaphragm is doing nothing only the spring pressure is acting on the valve. If you don't have anything hooked to the wastegate you have roughly 14.7 psi on each side, atmosphere pressure. Then the gate is only operating on spring pressure also. So in theory there should be no difference if you have no pressure or have 100 psi on each side. Your wastegate is just operating on spring pressure. The net on each side of the diaphragm is zero. The exhaust pushes on the gate piston and will overcome the spring pressure. Your gate is opening with exhaust pressure overcoming the spring pressure. You cannot keep the gate closed all the time using boost as a controller. So in theory, if you have a 15 psi spring, once backpressure is 15 psi higher then boost then the gate will open. But even at the lower back pressure using a spring to hold something closed the gate will start to bleed off pressure even before the 15 psi differential is reached. If you want to keep the gate closed all the time you have to put exhaust pressure to the top of the gate not boost.

So in the end your gate is still working just it is set at a much higher pressure level.
 

jkidd_39

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Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate the help.

The only thing is people with block off plates are seeing slightly higher levels pulling similar loads. I just can't see the advantage after the fact.

I still think I'm gonna sell it and go to plates..
 

Dzchey21

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Think about this, when you use boost to control the wastegate and turn the controller all the way up you end up with equal pressure on both sides of the diaphragm. This equal pressure in theory should make no difference in the way the diaphragm controls the wastegate, so the diaphragm is doing nothing only the spring pressure is acting on the valve. If you don't have anything hooked to the wastegate you have roughly 14.7 psi on each side, atmosphere pressure. Then the gate is only operating on spring pressure also. So in theory there should be no difference if you have no pressure or have 100 psi on each side. Your wastegate is just operating on spring pressure. The net on each side of the diaphragm is zero. The exhaust pushes on the gate piston and will overcome the spring pressure. Your gate is opening with exhaust pressure overcoming the spring pressure. You cannot keep the gate closed all the time using boost as a controller. So in theory, if you have a 15 psi spring, once backpressure is 15 psi higher then boost then the gate will open. But even at the lower back pressure using a spring to hold something closed the gate will start to bleed off pressure even before the 15 psi differential is reached. If you want to keep the gate closed all the time you have to put exhaust pressure to the top of the gate not boost.

So in the end your gate is still working just it is set at a much higher pressure level.

Food for thought...

Just because its a 15 lb spring doesnt mean that its going to open the valve at 15psi of back pressure. The spring in the wastegate is compressed considerably, therefore the spring is preloaded, so to say that the gate will open at 15psi is slightly inaccurate, whats needed to know is seat pressure, or the pressure it takes to begin to lift the valve off the valve seat in the gate... which... really isnt given out in wastegate instructions or tuning. I supposed the proper way to see what seat pressure is would be to weld a pipe shut, put an air fitting in the pipe, and slowely increase the pressure on the wastegate valve and see at what point it begins to open.... might do that before i do my next turbo set up so i know what im working with.

I bring this up because we spent some considerable time tuning a truck with max powers on it, had some trouble with the manual regulator, as well as the AMS500 controller, no matter what we did the gate would surge and stay open or closed and not very under control.

So we put regulated boost to the top... held the gate open and maxed out the EBP reading on IDS... no matter how little, or how much pressure. As long as there was pressure on the top of the gate it held it shut

Moved to the side port put pressure to it, now the gate would blow open early and then not shut fast enough, making a crazy dyno graph reading, as well as making the back pressure surge between 80psi absolute and 55psi absolute, as well as making the turbos act funny.

Tried regulated to the top, full boost to the bottom, about the same results
tried regulated to the bottom full to the top about the same happened, nothing worked and the gate surged like crazy

Got a wild hair to just unhook all pressure to the wastegate top and bottom... magic... it makes 76 psi absolute of back pressure on the nose, and stays there at 55 psi of boost. Nice clean graph on the dyno, ebp graph follows nicely as well. BTW this is with a "15 lb spring"


but in short, jeremy is right, your gate is probably doing something to relieve back pressure right now, putting pressure to the top of the gate to hold it close will probably reveal that the gate is doing something afterall.
 
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BFT

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Putting in plates will not reduce BP, if anything it will keep it the same or it will go up.

The WG uses boost pressure and spring force bypassing the flow to regulate the turbine
 

jkidd_39

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Putting in plates will not reduce BP, if anything it will keep it the same or it will go up.

The WG uses boost pressure and spring force bypassing the flow to regulate the turbine

I'm aware of that. I don't think my bp will be at a dangerous level with plates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk while pulling a 36ft gooseneck and not paying attention to the road.
 

BFT

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I'm aware of that. I don't think my bp will be at a dangerous level with plates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk while pulling a 36ft gooseneck and not paying attention to the road.

if you run a lower tune then i dont see BP being a real problem
 

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