Audio gurus, I need your help

jwlandry · Feb 23, 2014

I've been thinking about a new sound system for my truck. I've looked through other threads with ext cab trucks, mainly Jason@dynoproven's old truck. This is what I've came up with.

Head unit:
Pioneer avh-x4600bt
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/DVD-Receivers/AVH-X4600BT

Subs (2)
jl audio 8W3v3-4
http://www.jlaudio.com/8w3v3-4-car-audio-w3v3-subwoofer-drivers-92148
*wired to 1 ohm

Door speakers (front)
Massive audio CK 6X
http://massiveaudio.com/products/ckx-series-component-speakers/ck-6x-component-speakers/

Rear
Massive audio CK 69X
http://massiveaudio.com/products/ckx-series-component-speakers/ck-69x-component-speakers/

Now where I need the help. Amps.. I'd like same brand/model. These are the ones I'm thinking but I could be way off.

Subs
Massive audio d 1200
http://massiveaudio.com/products/amplifiers/d-1200-mono-block-amplifier-copy/

Components
Massive audio d 800.4
http://massiveaudio.com/products/amplifiers/d-800-4-4-channel-amplifier/

Like I said I'm open to suggestions on the amps.
Thanks.

thuglike · Feb 23, 2014

Those Massive Audio's love power!!!!!!!!!! I had the RK's but the CK's are real good.

They are smaller in size(depth) and sound great. The crossovers are a little big and depending on your type of music the tweets are bright. I like a bright tweeter so it was a good fit. Where these shine are mid and low...they hit like a truck and when tuned in to just cross over to your sub level...sound is great. FLawless all the up and down. You hear each symbol hit and feel every bass drum kick in the small of your back!!

I really liked that set-up and the Massive stuff is preet well priced.

jwlandry · Feb 23, 2014

Where did you mount your tweeters?
I may try and do some glass work and put them in the sail panels

thuglike · Feb 23, 2014

On the flat spot right next to the sail panel on top of the door trim. I put them all over and they sounded best there.

jwlandry · Feb 23, 2014

That may be easier. Thanks

jdc753 · Feb 24, 2014

I am guessing this will be going in the 2012. As an ultimate truck what does it have for a factory radio? Usually I am all for aftermarket upgrades but if you have one of the higher end factory setups it might be nicer to skip on an HU and instead spend that money towards a processor instead. That way you can keep all the factory integration, SYNC, bluetooth, navigation, steering controls ect seemlessly.

As for a dual 8" sub setup see if Garebear can send you some pics of the ID8's he has in V-ice. It's a ported box that a shop built for him and last I heard he was quite happy with it.

jwlandry said:
Subs (2)
jl audio 8W3v3-4
http://www.jlaudio.com/8w3v3-4-car-audio-w3v3-subwoofer-drivers-92148
*wired to 1 ohm

For some reason I can't load JL's site, but looking up these subs listed, they are single coil 4ohm subs, this means the pair can only be wired down to 2ohm.

So unless JL offers a 2ohm version or a DVC version of that sub you will be looking for a sub amp that dishes out 500w @ 2ohm.

With that the Massive D1200 looks to be right, and the tiny compact package will be easy to install. Same with the other massive amp, should make it easy for a nice aesthetically pleasing installation.

I see no issues with the amps, basically wattage is wattage until you start getting into crazy high end amps where you start comparing THD and signal to noise ratio or crossover/tuning features.

And as Jason said with the tweeters if you can experiment with them and see what sounds best to you. Make up some temporary extra long speaker leads and use some double sided tape, or hot glue and do some critical listening with the tweeters in various spots.

Generally in these trucks it is considered that the A-pillar firing directly across at each other is the best for imaging and sound stage. Now with this or any location you will have to battle against path length differences between the tweeters and the mids. Path lengths are the distance from the speaker to your ear, so if the right mid is say 30" from your ear and the right tweeter is 60" from your ear, you will hear the mid frequencies before the highs, causing a delay/separation of the audio signal.

I drove around for weeks with mine in various spots using hot glue and dowels for aiming. I ended up not using the a-pillars in mine due to the construction of my tweeters (Ring Radiator) that makes them have poor response when aimed off axis (+/- 15° of aiming from the listener)

jwlandry · Feb 24, 2014

No. These will go in a 2001 extended cab.

For some reason I thought they was DVC. Sorry about that.

jdc753 · Feb 24, 2014

For an extended cab I am guessing you will be putting them under the rear seat? I would just double a triple check the room you have under the seat. Been a while since I messed with the measurements for one, but I remember there isn't too much room there. Those amps will definitely be handy when it comes to finding room for them.

Spatel23 · Feb 24, 2014

jdc753 said:
I am guessing this will be going in the 2012. As an ultimate truck what does it have for a factory radio? Usually I am all for aftermarket upgrades but if you have one of the higher end factory setups it might be nicer to skip on an HU and instead spend that money towards a processor instead. That way you can keep all the factory integration, SYNC, bluetooth, navigation, steering controls ect seemlessly.

What would the best processor be for a 13 with MyFordTouch ?

I plan on 1 JL13Tw and maybe replacing the door speakers

Powerstroked162 · Feb 24, 2014

JL's cleansweep any good, josh?

bigrpowr · Feb 25, 2014

Spatel23 said:
What would the best processor be for a 13 with MyFordTouch ?

I plan on 1 JL13Tw and maybe replacing the door speakers

i used the lcq-i .. pricey but has a ton of control for multiple components and tunability. my setup is tuned, very well with it.

Powerstroked162 said:
JL's cleansweep any good, josh?

complete pile of $hit.

jdc753 · Feb 25, 2014

Key thing the JL does is it comes with a calibration disc and it's mainly meant for factory systems that have a lot of built in EQ and other shaping features. The clean sweep uses the calibration disc and a microphone to zero everything out so proper tuning can begin. Like Mikey said, not really worth it, was one of the first integration units out and great when released but was quickly surpassed by the early Rockford units and now the Mosconi piece.

If the budget allows I would go with the Mosconi processor the 4to6 should be enough for the factory system (4-channel input, no subwoofer) or the 6to8 if you have an aftermarket HU to pickup all 6-channel output from the aftermarket radio. This is the processor Rick (unbroken) has in his Dodge.

Next in line I would go for the Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.3. Still pricy but these will accomplish FAR more than any combination of aftermarket HU and amplifiers will.

Some other options from Audison and JBL. Yes the processors are expensive, but if you compare them to the cost you would spend on an aftermarket HU then it is not that bad, and you can build a world class competition stereo from one of these.

The AudiControl LCQ-1 that Mikey has is actually not quite a processor, but is a very advanced line driver, boosting the voltage of the signal from the factory unit to the amplifiers and also adding a nice equilizer system for each channel and additional level matching on the driver before the amplifiers.

Spatel23 · Feb 25, 2014

So with the Mosconi 4to6 cant add a sub?

I may just go with what Mikey has, just wanted to see what options I have.

bigrpowr · Feb 25, 2014

jdc753 said:
Key thing the JL does is it comes with a calibration disc and it's mainly meant for factory systems that have a lot of built in EQ and other shaping features. The clean sweep uses the calibration disc and a microphone to zero everything out so proper tuning can begin. Like Mikey said, not really worth it, was one of the first integration units out and great when released but was quickly surpassed by the early Rockford units and now the Mosconi piece.

If the budget allows I would go with the Mosconi processor the 4to6 should be enough for the factory system (4-channel input, no subwoofer) or the 6to8 if you have an aftermarket HU to pickup all 6-channel output from the aftermarket radio. This is the processor Rick (unbroken) has in his Dodge.

Next in line I would go for the Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.3. Still pricy but these will accomplish FAR more than any combination of aftermarket HU and amplifiers will.

Some other options from Audison and JBL. Yes the processors are expensive, but if you compare them to the cost you would spend on an aftermarket HU then it is not that bad, and you can build a world class competition stereo from one of these.

The AudiControl LCQ-1 that Mikey has is actually not quite a processor, but is a very advanced line driver, boosting the voltage of the signal from the factory unit to the amplifiers and also adding a nice equilizer system for each channel and additional level matching on the driver before the amplifiers.

thanks for clarifying, i know very little, just what is recommended to me by a very solid shop. that being said, the clean sweep in my 08 tends to have a hiss when volume is off in my 2008, with the 2010 syncnav headunit. i was never happy with it. maybe it just doesnt jive with that clarion unit output or something. the lcq-i is very crisp and so adjustable, i am happy with it.

thuglike · Feb 25, 2014

I do nothing Audio wise without picking Josh's brain first!!!

jdc753 · Feb 26, 2014

Spatel23 said:
So with the Mosconi 4to6 cant add a sub?

I may just go with what Mikey has, just wanted to see what options I have.

I think I missrepresented it earlier, or I wasn't thinking clearly...

The 4to8 will accept 4 channels of input, Front(Left/Right) and Rear(Left/Right) which is I am guessing, all the factory unit dishes out. It will then output 6-channels which I assume will be Front(Left/Right) Rear(Left/Right) and Sub(left/Right). Essentially when this means is the subwoofer channel could be affected by the fader on the factory HU since it is downstream of the processor.

Now I could be wrong, it happens quite often, but without tinkering with a unit in person or reading over the manual I won't know any better.

Looking it over again the LCQ like Mike has might just be perfect for your application as it will not be overly complicated giving you a strong 6-channel (front, rear and sub) feed that is pure of factory crossovers (allowing the aftermarket ones to do their work) and also gives you a pretty solid EQ foundation to tweak the final installation without going overboard with the tun ability.

Think of it as a SOLID H&S or IDP tune written for your truck compared to a laptop in hand running MCC or EFI live and writing your own tuning.

bigrpowr said:
thanks for clarifying, i know very little, just what is recommended to me by a very solid shop. that being said, the clean sweep in my 08 tends to have a hiss when volume is off in my 2008, with the 2010 syncnav headunit. i was never happy with it. maybe it just doesnt jive with that clarion unit output or something. the lcq-i is very crisp and so adjustable, i am happy with it.

Hmm, is that with the volume off on the factory unit, or volume off on the clean sweep or both? Sounds to me kinda like when a amplifier has the gain jacked WAY up you can get a slight hiss with everything off just due to the overall amplification.

LCQ-i is definitely a great unit with the EQ tuning it has and top notch line driver, and similar features of the clean sweep as the LCQ takes all the incoming channels and sums them together and removes any factory crossover points to give you a clean signal that can be manipulated down stream. What it doesn't have is the capability to manipulate that signal for crossover points, time alignement, phase shift, or the 30 channels of EQ per channel.

Jason@dynoproven said:
I do nothing Audio wise without picking Josh's brain first!!!

Thanks Jason always glad to help where I can.

bigrpowr · Feb 26, 2014

jdc753 said:
I think I missrepresented it earlier, or I wasn't thinking clearly...

The 4to8 will accept 4 channels of input, Front(Left/Right) and Rear(Left/Right) which is I am guessing, all the factory unit dishes out. It will then output 6-channels which I assume will be Front(Left/Right) Rear(Left/Right) and Sub(left/Right). Essentially when this means is the subwoofer channel could be affected by the fader on the factory HU since it is downstream of the processor.

Now I could be wrong, it happens quite often, but without tinkering with a unit in person or reading over the manual I won't know any better.

Looking it over again the LCQ like Mike has might just be perfect for your application as it will not be overly complicated giving you a strong 6-channel (front, rear and sub) feed that is pure of factory crossovers (allowing the aftermarket ones to do their work) and also gives you a pretty solid EQ foundation to tweak the final installation without going overboard with the tun ability.

Think of it as a SOLID H&S or IDP tune written for your truck compared to a laptop in hand running MCC or EFI live and writing your own tuning.

Hmm, is that with the volume off on the factory unit, or volume off on the clean sweep or both? Sounds to me kinda like when a amplifier has the gain jacked WAY up you can get a slight hiss with everything off just due to the overall amplification.

LCQ-i is definitely a great unit with the EQ tuning it has and top notch line driver, and similar features of the clean sweep as the LCQ takes all the incoming channels and sums them together and removes any factory crossover points to give you a clean signal that can be manipulated down stream. What it doesn't have is the capability to manipulate that signal for crossover points, time alignement, phase shift, or the 30 channels of EQ per channel.

Thanks Jason always glad to help where I can.

that was with the gain low, its 500/1 driving a 13tw5 , so the amp gain was pretty low. pretty easy to overpower that speaker. that was with hu volume all the way down only. ill have the truck back one of these days and im gonna redo the sub setup and ill chase that problem. you are too smart for your own good my friend.

jwlandry · Feb 27, 2014

bigrpowr said:
that was with the gain low, its 500/1 driving a 13tw5 , so the amp gain was pretty low. pretty easy to overpower that speaker. that was with hu volume all the way down only. ill have the truck back one of these days and im gonna redo the sub setup and ill chase that problem. you are too smart for your own good my friend.

What is the status on the green beast?