HELP! Died while driving, crank no start

cpadolf3

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39 degrees this morning, let the truck warm up for 10 minutes, had good oil pressure, low temperature (normal). Got 1 mile from my house, decelerating from 35mph it started sputtering. Gave it throttle and it smoked a bit of white smoke (also normal for this particular truck on cold mornings, 235k miles) and then stalled completely. My oil was severely low, but after adding a gallon and getting it back on the dipstick, I had no change. The tach bounces while cranking, and I've removed my TS chip. TSB for CPS was already taken care of by dealer, but that's been a few years ago. Any suggestions? Can't do too much mechanical work, still stuck on the side of the road waiting for a tow.

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79jasper

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I would try a cps. Good practice to carry a good one.
Try unplugging the ICP sensor.
Check the pcm/fuel heater fuse.
Maybe change the fuel filter. Can you hear the pump running?

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dsberman94

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If it has cooled down some try it again. I had a bad coil on my ipr a while back and it pretty much did exactly what yours did. Once it cooled down I could start it and drive again until it got back to a certain temp then it would die again and I would have to wait for it to cool down. All I changed was the electrical cool portion of the ipr, not the valve itself.
 

79jasper

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*Solenoid.
You can try spraying it with something like brake clean or dump water on it to test.

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cpadolf3

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If it has cooled down some try it again. I had a bad coil on my ipr a while back and it pretty much did exactly what yours did. Once it cooled down I could start it and drive again until it got back to a certain temp then it would die again and I would have to wait for it to cool down. All I changed was the electrical cool portion of the ipr, not the valve itself.
The truck had only run for 15 minutes and never passed 35 mph. I waited an hour to be towed back to the house, and by the time I got back up there, about another 30 minutes. So 1.5 hours should be enough to cool down an already cool engine, I would think. When I got home I tried cranking it again and same thing, crank and no fire. Where is the IPR located? Also, this couldn't have happened at a worse time financially, so while I will be fixing it, I am NOT eager to spend a ton of money. Is there any way for me to test the IDM or do a buzz test without paying a shop $300? I have a Cen-Tech scanner from harbor freight but I don't think it has these capabilities

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cpadolf3

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I would try a cps. Good practice to carry a good one.
Try unplugging the ICP sensor.
Check the pcm/fuel heater fuse.
Maybe change the fuel filter. Can you hear the pump running?

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I heard the pump running, new fuel filter 10k miles ago. What should a Ford CPS usually cost?

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79jasper

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I don't know know what they cost these days. When I bought mine 5 years ago from riffraff-diesel it was around $85, iirc.
Wouldn't hurt to swap the filter. Could've picked up some junk.

Doubt that scanner will do anything. Cheapest I could say is go the torque, car gauge pro, for scan route. But you need a Bluetooth obd2 adapter.

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cpadolf3

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I don't know know what they cost these days. When I bought mine 5 years ago from riffraff-diesel it was around $85, iirc.
Wouldn't hurt to swap the filter. Could've picked up some junk.

Doubt that scanner will do anything. Cheapest I could say is go the torque, car gauge pro, for scan route. But you need a Bluetooth obd2 adapter.

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Called Ford Parts Depot. $28 + tax for the CPS. Not too bad at all. I plan on removing the lid of the fuel bowl to ensure that I have adequate fuel flow to the bowl. I thought maybe it could be the filters on the sending unit in the tank (hope not though, lol). Will be changing the CPS, but if not, I'll keep it as a spare. Nobody in town is available for a buzz test or test idm swap today, and I need the truck this weekend for a family trip. Any other suggestions on how I can test injectors or the IDM? Where is the IDM and IPR located? I'd like to avoid removing the valve covers, just because if I do that, I'll be changing UVCH, GP, GPR, and valve cover gaskets. Trying to save as much money as I can here, but I think it'd be foolhardy to disassemble the valve covers and not maintenance everything. I appreciate all of the responses

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79jasper

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Removing valve covers doesn't necessarily mean replacing the UVCH'S. The gaskets are reusable.

Do you get any smoke at all while cranking?

Idm is on the fender, ipr is down behind the fuel filter.
Really no ideas on how to test either without a good diagnostic tool.

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cpadolf3

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Removing valve covers doesn't necessarily mean replacing the UVCH'S. The gaskets are reusable.

Do you get any smoke at all while cranking?

Idm is on the fender, ipr is down behind the fuel filter.
Really no ideas on how to test either without a good diagnostic tool.

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Just while cranking, no smoke that I've noticed. I'll look again in a couple hours when I'm back with the truck. It has been burning a ton of oil, especially when cold or when I've driven, let it idle for more than 5 min, and then drive again. BUT, that's totally unrelated in my opinion. If I'm able to do the 50 cent mod I will, just to save the money from the UVCH. The valve covers are already leaky, but I suppose I can always change those gaskets later.

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79jasper

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That brings another thing to mind, see if the fuel filter is black. Could be bad injector orings.

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cpadolf3

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I'll take a look at it for sure and get back on here with a report. Thanks

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Magnum PD

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The IPR is at the bottom of the HPOP. Two wires going into it. Make sure it's all together.
 

cpadolf3

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The IPR is at the bottom of the HPOP. Two wires going into it. Make sure it's all together.
IPR appears to be intact with no issues. Unplugged ICP, was full of oil, but having it unplugged made no difference. I unplugged what I believe to be the fuel heater (white connector harness into the back of the fuel bowl?). Getting ready to run to oreilly for a CPS. I know I know, Ford CPS is better, but this is a hell of a lot closer and even if it works for 2 seconds, it'll tell me what I need to know.

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Arisley

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DO you get a wait to start light. If not, unplug the fuel heater (only electrical connection on the fuel bowl), replace the fuse and fire it up.
 

cpadolf3

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DO you get a wait to start light. If not, unplug the fuel heater (only electrical connection on the fuel bowl), replace the fuse and fire it up.
I do get a WTS light. Changing CPS now. Will inform

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cpadolf3

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I changed the CPS, no change in how it's acting. With these symptoms, it doesn't sound like it's the IPR. So now I'm left with the IDM or UVCH. Getting ready to drain the fuel filter to verify that's not interfering, but I seriously doubt it. Just to confirm, there's no way to test the injectors without a buzz test capable scanner, correct? If I pull the valve covers and feel the injectors while cranking, will this tell me anything? Is there a way to verify that I'm getting power to the IDM? What about fuse locations? I don't have a Haynes or Chilton manual for this truck so I have no access to fuse diagrams without forums and the Internet

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dsberman94

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The truck had only run for 15 minutes and never passed 35 mph. I waited an hour to be towed back to the house, and by the time I got back up there, about another 30 minutes. So 1.5 hours should be enough to cool down an already cool engine, I would think. When I got home I tried cranking it again and same thing, crank and no fire. Where is the IPR located? Also, this couldn't have happened at a worse time financially, so while I will be fixing it, I am NOT eager to spend a ton of money. Is there any way for me to test the IDM or do a buzz test without paying a shop $300? I have a Cen-Tech scanner from harbor freight but I don't think it has these capabilities

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Warmer than you'd think it would be. I only had to be at 130ish for mine to die. Easily capable of being there in 15 minutes of run time. If your temp gauge reaches a normal operating temp, you're already at or over 141*.

Honestly I doubt it's your idm or even injector solenoid related. The idm usually has some symptoms related before it just stops working, same with injector solenoids. They don't just all die at once and cause a no start, also very rare to have one go bad.

Your harbor freight scanner won't do much unfortunately. You need something that will give realtime data with the ability to look at different parameters at once. The first and least expensive option that comes to mind currently is going to be the forscan smartphone app or download it on a computer. Or there is a couple of others that are free that you can download on your phone And you will need a Bluetooth OBDII adapter for a phone. The adapters cost about $5 on amazon depending on which one you get. If using a laptop you'll need a USB to OBDII cable for the forscan app. I'd do one of the free phone apps and a Bluetooth adaptor if you have an android or iPhone.

The IPR is quite far down into the valley of the engine, it comes out of the back of the hpop toward the driver side of the hpop. Easiest way to know exactly which it is, is to google for a picture of it. You should be able to see the wires going into the solenoid, then behind that would be a spacer and a tin nut holding the solenoid and spacer on. If the tin nut or any other 1/2"x20 nut is not on there, that is a problem.

Also, I do not remember if it has been mention but is there oil in your icp sensor connector? If there is this is also bad and you need a new one. Try starting it with the icp sensor wires unplugged and see if it starts. If it does fire, your issue is the icp sensor. (Reread and noticed this was mentioned and tried. But you still need a new one since it's full of oil. Memory says it's around $100-$120 maybe.)

Once you get a device to read data in real time, what we need to know is what your icp sensor is reading, as well as ipr duty cycle, both while cranking. Once we know this we know if it's hpo related or not which narrows down or rules out a decent chunk of things to check. It's very hard to diagnose an issue on these trucks in person without some sort of a device to monitor what the truck is seeing, no less trying to do it over the internet. That prevents you from just throwing money at it.

Fuse diagram would be in your owners manual as well as a list of what each fuse does. There's also copies of the owners manual online if you google "xxxx Ford F-250 owners manual"( insert model year where the xxxx is.) I was able to find one year specific to my truck and download it to my phone as a PDF file.
 
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Magnum PD

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IDM fuse under the hood.

As long as the WTS light is coming on, you should have power to the IDM

Check for oil in the HPO Rez
 

cpadolf3

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Warmer than you'd think it would be. I only had to be at 130ish for mine to die. Easily capable of being there in 15 minutes of run time. If your temp gauge reaches a normal operating temp, you're already at or over 141*.

Honestly I doubt it's your idm or even injector solenoid related. The idm usually has some symptoms related before it just stops working, same with injector solenoids. They don't just all die at once and cause a no start, also very rare to have one go bad.

Your harbor freight scanner won't do much unfortunately. You need something that will give realtime data with the ability to look at different parameters at once. The first and least expensive option that comes to mind currently is going to be the forscan smartphone app or download it on a computer. Or there is a couple of others that are free that you can download on your phone And you will need a Bluetooth OBDII adapter for a phone. The adapters cost about $5 on amazon depending on which one you get. If using a laptop you'll need a USB to OBDII cable for the forscan app. I'd do one of the free phone apps and a Bluetooth adaptor if you have an android or iPhone.

The IPR is quite far down into the valley of the engine, it comes out of the back of the hpop toward the driver side of the hpop. Easiest way to know exactly which it is, is to google for a picture of it. You should be able to see the wires going into the solenoid, then behind that would be a spacer and a tin nut holding the solenoid and spacer on. If the tin nut or any other 1/2"x20 nut is not on there, that is a problem.

Also, I do not remember if it has been mention but is there oil in your icp sensor connector? If there is this is also bad. Try starting it with the icp sensor wires unplugged and see if it starts. If it does fire, your issue is the icp sensor.

Once you get a device to read data in real time, what we need to know is what your icp sensor is reading, as well as ipr duty cycle, both while cranking. It's very hard to diagnose an issue on these trucks in person without some sort of a device to monitor what the truck is seeing, no less trying to do it over the internet.
I checked the fuel bowl, fuel is clean with no water or debris. ICP had oil in it, but made no difference once disconnected. Ordered a scanner but won't be here until Monday

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