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  #11  
Old 05-22-2011, 02:38 PM
David@BSDP David@BSDP is offline
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Originally Posted by 94.5 Stroker View Post
does the tunnel have to be altered?
I did not haver to alter my tunnel at all..

Just take it off put the ZF6 in then put it back on.. That worked for me..
  #12  
Old 05-22-2011, 04:14 PM
Krause Krause is offline
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Whats with all the manual/standard hate? Am i missing something here? "put a 4R100 in", Isnt it nearly the same tranny as the E4OD? As Jim said, some people want to shift. Not to mention, your looking at 4000+ for a reputably built auto, and 2000 for a Zf6 if you play your cards right.. thats a lot of extra money.
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2011, 04:14 PM
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cumminskiller cumminskiller is offline
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The install is not to bad. Basically have to make a crossmember, rear driveshaft and transfercase linkage. Other than that its all just nuts and bolts. I only did mine because i got the right price on the ZF6 and a southbend DD. Otherwise i would just buy a clutch for the ZF5 and not worry about it.
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  #14  
Old 05-23-2011, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Krause View Post
Whats with all the manual/standard hate? Am i missing something here? "put a 4R100 in", Isnt it nearly the same tranny as the E4OD? As Jim said, some people want to shift. Not to mention, your looking at 4000+ for a reputably built auto, and 2000 for a Zf6 if you play your cards right.. thats a lot of extra money.
Krause

Did you miss something?

Yeah. Actually having done it. And the ability to compare apples to apples. That's what you missed.


A 2000 dollar ZF6 will not hold half of what a 4000 dollar auto will. They are not comparable. If you want to buy a 2000 dollar reman ZF, add a 1400 dollar clutch to it, then you can hold what the auto can, except you can't shift worth a damn, will quickly blow the syncros trying to DD with a clutch that has the balls to hold that kind of power and if you decide to tow heavy, you will burn it up.

Fwiw, I've got 3600 in my trans. For a truck that came with an auto, that's all it would have cost total. Vs 34 to 3500 dollars for a ZF with a dual disc to hold the same that would drive like SH*T and wouldn't last.

I chose to run a stand-alone controller and tacked on another 550 dollars. So with full stand-alone control, datalogging, wastegates and water injection all being run through my trans I have 4,150 dollars in it.

But mainly.... a ZF6 would drive like garbage and wouldn't last a week in my truck. The 4R usually goes for a year or so before I pop a converter or a shaft. And shifts beautifully the whole time.

So yeah, you missed a lot. A lot of practical experience and reality.



And I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade, or tell you what to do with your truck. I just think it's better to figure out how dumb the manuals are in comparison BEFORE you spend your hard-earned money on one.... or two....

I would love to have the money back that I wasted on the ZF6 in my truck.

Last edited by Charles; 05-23-2011 at 06:48 AM.
  #15  
Old 05-23-2011, 10:28 PM
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94.5 Stroker 94.5 Stroker is offline
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i want to go to the ZF6 for the overdrive gear just for an overall better dd
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  #16  
Old 05-24-2011, 12:02 AM
Krause Krause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Did you miss something?

Yeah. Actually having done it. And the ability to compare apples to apples. That's what you missed.


A 2000 dollar ZF6 will not hold half of what a 4000 dollar auto will. They are not comparable. If you want to buy a 2000 dollar reman ZF, add a 1400 dollar clutch to it, then you can hold what the auto can, except you can't shift worth a damn, will quickly blow the syncros trying to DD with a clutch that has the balls to hold that kind of power and if you decide to tow heavy, you will burn it up.

Fwiw, I've got 3600 in my trans. For a truck that came with an auto, that's all it would have cost total. Vs 34 to 3500 dollars for a ZF with a dual disc to hold the same that would drive like SH*T and wouldn't last.

I chose to run a stand-alone controller and tacked on another 550 dollars. So with full stand-alone control, datalogging, wastegates and water injection all being run through my trans I have 4,150 dollars in it.

But mainly.... a ZF6 would drive like garbage and wouldn't last a week in my truck. The 4R usually goes for a year or so before I pop a converter or a shaft. And shifts beautifully the whole time.

So yeah, you missed a lot. A lot of practical experience and reality.



And I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade, or tell you what to do with your truck. I just think it's better to figure out how dumb the manuals are in comparison BEFORE you spend your hard-earned money on one.... or two....

I would love to have the money back that I wasted on the ZF6 in my truck.
Wow Charles, "Did i miss something" wasnt an invite to be condescending, it was an honest question as to why everyones hating on standards; Not sure I liked the tone of your post, so maybe next time ease off a bit on your delivery. In the meantime Ill point out what YOU missed
-I have both a zf6 and a E4OD, as well as unlimited access to a 4R100, so I can compare "apples to apples", (this was one of the parts that seemed very a**-hole like of you, blatantly passing judgement on not only my stuff, but my skills and experience as well, pretty arrogant...)
-Sounds like your truck is pretty nice, or at least powerful. That said, all your stuff about frying ZF6's isnt really valid, because your laying down way more power that the average Joe. So before you sway an entire group of readers into sticking with their auto, consider that the OP may just have a stock truck, in which case a manual will hold up just fine. Im not an expert, but in my experience, supporting a stock truck, the manual has been more robust than the E4OD, but hey thats just my opinion.

The Zf6 can tow just fine, again in my experience they need an better auxiliary cooler, but then again so does nearly any auto. Perhaps it is you who has lost the ability to compare 'apples to apples' with an auto trans that 99% of the population hasnt ever had or have the knowledge to build...?
  #17  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:23 AM
DZL JIM DZL JIM is offline
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Krause,
IMO you can't really compare Charles' truck to reality. He's built a hell of a truck and runs it hard everyday. His choice, and he needs to have it hold up to his driving style.

The rest of us that make half the power that he does and drive our trucks like we want it to last another 10 years without having to fix it every year will do fine with a manul trans.

You should also get used to that type of response from him, it's just the way he is, so absorb the info he offers and don't take it personally.
  #18  
Old 05-24-2011, 05:51 AM
David@BSDP David@BSDP is offline
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Originally Posted by DZL JIM View Post
Krause,
IMO you can't really compare Charles' truck to reality. He's built a hell of a truck and runs it hard everyday. His choice, and he needs to have it hold up to his driving style.

The rest of us that make half the power that he does and drive our trucks like we want it to last another 10 years without having to fix it every year will do fine with a manul trans.

You should also get used to that type of response from him, it's just the way he is, so absorb the info he offers and don't take it personally.
  #19  
Old 05-24-2011, 06:30 AM
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I just wish somebody had slapped me in the mouth and maybe shook me real hard a couple times when I went to buy that ZF6 after having already taken out the original unit that came in the truck.

Master/slave assemblies dying on a monthly basis, generally shifting like garbage all the time and all the rest. You'd have THOUGHT I would have made a better decision. But.... I just kept thinking I could fix all the bs and have something nice. But no. The engines make too much torque for a dry clutch system to hold and shift well at the same time.

A turbodiesel is meant to twist on a torque converter with a tripple disc clutch, not just a single or dual disc clutch with absolutely no way to apply power like a converter can when unlocked.


My 550 makes ~300rwhp and after making numerous 2.5hr trips from the farm through hay season last year the ZF6 is about 50% trashed. I've gotten pretty good at feeling when it's about to pop out of 4th gear at WOT and just short-shift it to 5th now. I had hoped it was just a fluke when I burned up the last ZF6 in my truck and also hoped that the 4.88 gears and running in OD as opposed to direct would have allowed this one to last. Now I wish I had come up with some kind of massive cooler for it.

I only have 325 dollars in the clutch on this truck, which is the reason it's still a ZF6. And for someone already running a manual, it makes sense to stick with it sub 500hp, although obviously if you intend to tow like you have a pair, something has GOT to be done about the inability of the unit to adequately cool itself.

Now when it comes to actively cutting sheetmetal and driveshafts and such to do a custom transmission swap in a vehicle though... I just can't sit idle and watch someone go to such lengths to install such an inferior design.

And I just don't know how to put it nicely I guess.



But like I said, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do with their truck. I'm just offering that slap to the mouth that only a truly honest guy will give a friend when they need it.

Last edited by Charles; 05-24-2011 at 06:35 AM.
  #20  
Old 05-24-2011, 11:42 AM
Krause Krause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Now I wish I had come up with some kind of massive cooler for it.

I only have 325 dollars in the clutch on this truck, which is the reason it's still a ZF6. And for someone already running a manual, it makes sense to stick with it sub 500hp, although obviously if you intend to tow like you have a pair, something has GOT to be done about the inability of the unit to adequately cool itself.

Now when it comes to actively cutting sheetmetal and driveshafts and such to do a custom transmission swap in a vehicle though... I just can't sit idle and watch someone go to such lengths to install such an inferior design.
Charles,

-You mentioned you wish you had come up with some kind of massive cooler for it, how big of cooler were you running? When you say massive do you mean like, a tru-cool max size, or massive like you required a intercooler sized cooler for it?


-I dont really see the trouble of the swap, but thats probly just my inexperience building nice transmissions coming through. I find researching and properly installing a full manual VB much more daunting than a bit of work with the pneumatic tin snips and having driveshafts altered.

Krause
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