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  #11  
Old 03-17-2018, 09:08 AM
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Petro Petro is offline
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I'm not sure why anyone would waste their time with anything less than a 100% nozzle. I can't count on 2 hands the amount of people I know who tow heavy with 100% nozzles and a 38r and never have egt issues. In my experience, guys running 100 and 200% nozzles actually ran cooler when towing heavy because less Pulsewidth was needed to achieve the same result. Any reputable tuner should be able to dial in a 100 or 200% nozzle correctly. The best 7.3 towing setup I ever drove was a 6 speed truck with 300/200's, and an s468. EGT's were never can issue in the lower tunes and holding speed with 24 round bales in tow was as easy as setting the cruise.
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06 F350 CCSB 4x4 6.Blow ZF6, 220k - Warren Tuned, 190/100's, Powermax, RR, Ported Manifold, Fass 200, Water/Meth
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2018, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro View Post
I'm not sure why anyone would waste their time with anything less than a 100% nozzle. I can't count on 2 hands the amount of people I know who tow heavy with 100% nozzles and a 38r and never have egt issues. In my experience, guys running 100 and 200% nozzles actually ran cooler when towing heavy because less Pulsewidth was needed to achieve the same result. Any reputable tuner should be able to dial in a 100 or 200% nozzle correctly. The best 7.3 towing setup I ever drove was a 6 speed truck with 300/200's, and an s468. EGT's were never can issue in the lower tunes and holding speed with 24 round bales in tow was as easy as setting the cruise.
I keep saying it. Get in and get out. High pw means more heat/energy going out the tailpipe and not being used to drive the piston down.

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  #13  
Old 03-17-2018, 08:54 PM
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My all-time favorite setup was 250/200 and a 66mm h2 with tunes from TW towed Heavy all the time this was years ago but.. it's all in the tune don't be scared of a 100% or 200% they work just fine..
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2018, 03:26 PM
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I only tow 10k, never tried heavier, but EGTís and smoke are not an issue at all.

Iím not sure at what weight or altitude 350/200ís and an s467.7 would become an issue.
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Retired - 99 ccsb, s468, 238/200, BTS, Twin Terminator, ARP, 910, RR, Trutrac, 573rwhp
  #15  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:35 AM
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I believe it was Charles who said he would run a 200% nozzle on a stock AD if it was practical and I agree with him. I just don't understand this fear of bigger nozzles that several Injector builders and tuners have. I've never personally seen any info to support such fears, but I have seen how well a 200% nozzle can be used in a work horse pickup that does nothing but tow heavy. I've been out of the 7.3 game for a couple years and have since gotten into 6 liters, but I'll admit I miss the way a modified 7.3 handles heavy towing.
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06 F350 CCSB 4x4 6.Blow ZF6, 220k - Warren Tuned, 190/100's, Powermax, RR, Ported Manifold, Fass 200, Water/Meth
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:04 AM
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Thank's for the info guys. I have been on the fence between 175/80's and 238/100's. Part of me thinks that the 7 to 1 should be better than the 5 to 1. But thru reading a lot of old threads it looks like even running an Adrenalin pump some guys have trouble holding pressure with them. And most guys running the hybrids are pretty happy with them. It just seems like with the 7.3's that as soon as you go over 2,000 rpm your fuel mileage really goes to crap. My thoughts are that the fuel was just not getting used because it was just too late in the power cycle. But with the hybrid how much do you have to increase the hole size to compensate for the lower amount of push the hybrid has. Another question. Since I have a 38r and I am not going to buy another turbo is the 238 about the limit on fuel or could i go to 250 and still have a pretty clean truck. Here in the midwest we are pretty rural and we don't have problems with law if you are not trying to be show off on smoke.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2018, 11:27 AM
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Iíve actually ran 238/200ís with a 38r on a personal truck for 6 months before I went with an s467.7.

The power would come on violently, if you were turning and put your foot into it the truck would kick sideways back and forth until you pulled your foot out. It was fun down low but it would level out up top. It towed fine if you tow like a normal human, which I donít. I would have to control my EGTís with my right foot, now with an s467.7 I just check out EGTís here and there, itís not an issue.

If I wanted a dedicated tow rig I would do 205/30ís and an s364.5sxe

If I wanted to have a fun daily that still tows good 238/100ís and an s369sxe

Budget ripper, good daily, light towing 250/200ís s467.7

I daily and tow with 350/200ís and an s467.7 and I like it a lot

If I wanted a truck just for racing and ripping around on the weekends then I would do 350/200ís and a Forced Inductions s476

That being said, my biggest seller is 180/30ís because theyíre a bang for the buck injector at $1,395 and the only supporting mods you need are intake, exhaust, and custom tunes. Everyone is super happy with the setup, I reguarly get a call right after they take it for the first rip thanking me saying itís a whole new truck and then another call 2 weeks down the road thanking me again.

Their truck seems really really slow to me with 180/30ís but they love it

You can make any size injector tow well with the right turbo/turbos

450/400ís can tow great with compound turbos

Just be real with yourself with what you plan to do with the truck and youíll be happy with the setup
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Retired - 99 ccsb, s468, 238/200, BTS, Twin Terminator, ARP, 910, RR, Trutrac, 573rwhp
  #18  
Old 03-19-2018, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BS Hauler View Post
Thank's for the info guys. I have been on the fence between 175/80's and 238/100's. Part of me thinks that the 7 to 1 should be better than the 5 to 1. But thru reading a lot of old threads it looks like even running an Adrenalin pump some guys have trouble holding pressure with them. And most guys running the hybrids are pretty happy with them. It just seems like with the 7.3's that as soon as you go over 2,000 rpm your fuel mileage really goes to crap. My thoughts are that the fuel was just not getting used because it was just too late in the power cycle. But with the hybrid how much do you have to increase the hole size to compensate for the lower amount of push the hybrid has. Another question. Since I have a 38r and I am not going to buy another turbo is the 238 about the limit on fuel or could i go to 250 and still have a pretty clean truck. Here in the midwest we are pretty rural and we don't have problems with law if you are not trying to be show off on smoke.

Whenever thereís a choice between 175/80ís or 238/100ís the answer is always 238/100ís. You will need a fuel system for 238/100ís. I also suggest head studs and 910 valve springs for that setup. A set of Irate intake plenums and a good set of boots and clamps will go a long way, blowing boots off gets old real quick.
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99 RCSB s468, 350/200, BTS, Twin Terminators, Crowers, A1000, Colt Cam, Headers, Cryo'd block, Girdle, De-lipped/Ceramic/Teflon Pistons, 05 front axle 666rwhp

Retired - 99 ccsb, s468, 238/200, BTS, Twin Terminator, ARP, 910, RR, Trutrac, 573rwhp
  #19  
Old 03-21-2018, 07:39 AM
DZL JIM DZL JIM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro View Post
I'm not sure why anyone would waste their time with anything less than a 100% nozzle. I can't count on 2 hands the amount of people I know who tow heavy with 100% nozzles and a 38r and never have egt issues. In my experience, guys running 100 and 200% nozzles actually ran cooler when towing heavy because less Pulsewidth was needed to achieve the same result. Any reputable tuner should be able to dial in a 100 or 200% nozzle correctly. The best 7.3 towing setup I ever drove was a 6 speed truck with 300/200's, and an s468. EGT's were never can issue in the lower tunes and holding speed with 24 round bales in tow was as easy as setting the cruise.
I respect every individuals real world input. Who am I to question what you have experienced.
What I can say, however, is it's fine if you know less than 10 people who tow successfully with big nozzles. I am on the phone with 10 to 20 people every day talking about what injectors they have, what they like, what they think they need, what they want, etc.
10 to 20 people every day, for the past 13 years. No idea what that amounts to, but it's a lot of people.
And my experience is that nobody with big nozzles likes to tow heavy. They run high EGT's and have tons of smoke.
I repeatedly tell customers if you tow heavy go with as small of a nozzle as possible.
What people need to understand is there are a zillion differences between your truck and every one else's, and each truck needs to be tuned and dialed in individually.
Tuning, tuning, tuning. For the most part. Having a properly sized turbo to match injectors, and good tuning, and you can do whatever you want.
I constantly read post like yours and immediately get jealous. I have been modding my truck for 15 years and I am still trying to get good tunes for it to do what I want. The only time I achieved this was when I had Bill live tune my truck with 238/200%. The truck was great afterwards, with all of it's 380 hp. It needed to be tuned back so much with those big nozzles, what's the point. I can get almost the same power with 180/30%.
No need to lecture me on how things work, I get all the theories. It's just not realistic to run big nozzles for the vast majority out there, for many reasons.

Sorry for the long post. I guess my point is it's easy to read what someone has done with their truck and want the same result. But it's entirely different to actually try and reach that same result.
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  #20  
Old 03-21-2018, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZL JIM View Post
I respect every individuals real world input. Who am I to question what you have experienced.
What I can say, however, is it's fine if you know less than 10 people who tow successfully with big nozzles. I am on the phone with 10 to 20 people every day talking about what injectors they have, what they like, what they think they need, what they want, etc.
10 to 20 people every day, for the past 13 years. No idea what that amounts to, but it's a lot of people.
And my experience is that nobody with big nozzles likes to tow heavy. They run high EGT's and have tons of smoke.
I repeatedly tell customers if you tow heavy go with as small of a nozzle as possible.
What people need to understand is there are a zillion differences between your truck and every one else's, and each truck needs to be tuned and dialed in individually.
Tuning, tuning, tuning. For the most part. Having a properly sized turbo to match injectors, and good tuning, and you can do whatever you want.
I constantly read post like yours and immediately get jealous. I have been modding my truck for 15 years and I am still trying to get good tunes for it to do what I want. The only time I achieved this was when I had Bill live tune my truck with 238/200%. The truck was great afterwards, with all of it's 380 hp. It needed to be tuned back so much with those big nozzles, what's the point. I can get almost the same power with 180/30%.
No need to lecture me on how things work, I get all the theories. It's just not realistic to run big nozzles for the vast majority out there, for many reasons.

Sorry for the long post. I guess my point is it's easy to read what someone has done with their truck and want the same result. But it's entirely different to actually try and reach that same result.
I hear what your saying, but I just can't understand how people can have so many tuning issues. I ran a shop for roughly 5 years, worked on almost exclusively Power Jokes. ( Only moved onto driving truck because I couldn't find good help so I gave up) In that time, I've installed properly close to 20 or 30 sets of larger than stock Injectors in 7.3's. A majority of those Injectors were 100% nozzles and several sets were 200%'s. Out of all of them, I can't remember any having to get more than 2 or 3 revisions TOPS to get their truck to run right. One truck took 4 or 5 revisons but the injectors were a 275/200 stroked A code that were a royal b*tch to get right. Now obviously you deal with probably 20 or 30 sets a month or possibly more, but I still have a hard time understanding what is so difficult about getting tuning dialed in. I bet 70% of the time, the tunes I installed on customers trucks for 100% nozzles were almost perfect the first time out. If tuning couldn't be made to work after a few revisions, there is obviously a mechanical flaw somewhere that needs addressed. This isn't a new platform, most tuners should have a decent idea how to tune a 100% nozzle. I also understand all trucks are different but that hasn't been an issue Ive had or have. Hell, I installed 300/200 in a kids superduty with a STOCK charger, he had swamps custom tunes and towed a stock trailer all over with that truck. Never once had an egt issue in the smaller tunes, it ran just like a stock pickup but better. I'm not trying to suggest you're not having problems, that just hasn't been my experience.
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Tow Rig/ Daily Driver
06 F350 CCSB 4x4 6.Blow ZF6, 220k - Warren Tuned, 190/100's, Powermax, RR, Ported Manifold, Fass 200, Water/Meth
Pulling Truck
05 F250 CCSB 4x4 6.Blow 5r110, 230k - Hybrid 250/100's, S369, RR, Fass
Past: Several 7.3s and a few 6.4's

Last edited by Petro; 03-21-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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