ZF6 Build

thanks, I kind of understand what you guys are saying.

I already run a .91ar housing due to higher elevation. I planned to run the .91ar housing on a 366sxe for my zf6 project. depending on how the 366 performs on my current setup will determine what route I go. I'm just not quite happy with the lag I have had with the LASB or 369. when I push hard on the pedal, I want the truck to get moving.

I know this is a lot different, but when I had stock injectors, php tunes and a turbonetics turbo(no idea what size, but larger than stock); it felt like there was no lag...just got up and took the fxxk off.

I have been learning ways around it but it's not consistent and not the way it should be in my book. If i punch it now from a stop, it will take a few seconds smoking out the road while it's trying to build boost to take off. It's the same way with my smaller LASB.
If i start off like a normal human, then really get into it; then it doesn't feel like there is much lag if at all. If I was at low elevation, I'm pretty certain it would take off like a bat out of hell.

Besides lag and minor shift strategies, everything is good...oh and economy sucks compared to stock injectors w/tunes.

I'm hoping the 366sxe will behave a bit better. Ideally I would like a turbo that spools low. I don't have enough experience with different turbo's but i'd like something that spools around 1200rpm; 1500 at most. I really don't feel my turbo until around 2k but I know it thinks about spooling earlier. If i'm cruising, i can see it making 1lb of boost at 1500. I would say it doesn't start spooling til 1800 rpm's though. This is another subject hard to describe.

I know we can't have it all. I like the power I have and wouldn't even mind more at times (even though i don't really need it). I also know I will loose some of the bottom end because of needing a larger turbo to help make the power.

I'd like to run against a stock chipped truck to see if all this money was even worth it...haha; maybe not; I'd probably start crying when a stock truck stayed on my tail and they only had to buy a hydra.

First of all 80% or 200% nozzles with GOOD tuning may be cleaner and cooler running than a 100% nozzle. 80% and 200% nozzles are EDM nozzles where as the 100s start as 80s and Extrude honing is used to get them to the 100% size. In theory the EH nozzles are dirtier than EDM nozzles. I say in theory as it has never been fully proven but over the years on the forums I have seen many many more complaints about the 100s and much less complaints about the 200s.

Before you remove the 369 you may consider finding someone to live tune the truck. There are things that can be done to wake up a lazy turbo in a tune but there will always be compromises. The 369sxe may be a bad choice for your altitude. I doubt the 366sxe will be that much better. The only difference between a 369 and 366 is a slightly larger compressor inducer. The 366 might spool a hair faster but in your situation a 364.5 would probably be best. Or go compounds.

Also If you were to go 364.5 I would stick with the larger turbine as it will of course bolt right in. I wouldn't use the smaller turbine size on a 7.3.

superpsd said:

First of all 80% or 200% nozzles with GOOD tuning may be cleaner and cooler running than a 100% nozzle. 80% and 200% nozzles are EDM nozzles where as the 100s start as 80s and Extrude honing is used to get them to the 100% size. In theory the EH nozzles are dirtier than EDM nozzles. I say in theory as it has never been fully proven but over the years on the forums I have seen many many more complaints about the 100s and much less complaints about the 200s.

Before you remove the 369 you may consider finding someone to live tune the truck. There are things that can be done to wake up a lazy turbo in a tune but there will always be compromises. The 369sxe may be a bad choice for your altitude. I doubt the 366sxe will be that much better. The only difference between a 369 and 366 is a slightly larger compressor inducer. The 366 might spool a hair faster but in your situation a 364.5 would probably be best. Or go compounds.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

I have always wondered if I even made the right choice in injectors. Recently have read about 80/200% nozzles being better.I almost went with 250/200's initially but figured with PMR's they were overkill.

I probably should have done a little more research before getting my second set of 250/100's for my zf6 project. The motor has factory forged rods but not sure bigger injectors would be worth it in a 6spd.

I have also thought about swapping motors...putting the forged rod motor in my 03 with bts tranny and putting the pmr motor in the 76 project with zf6, but that's a lot of work. Not sure if there is much to gain from factory forged to pmr's. I thought there used to be a significant difference but lately I've read that both have their limits and not necessarily able to handle much more than the pmrs, IDK.

I'd love to have my truck live tuned but always wanted to have everything else figured out first. don't really want to make the trip and pay for live tuning, and end up going a different route later on.

I was planning to run the 366 in my 6spd, so i figured a hour to swap out turbos just to try wouldn't hurt.
I have also thought about compounds recently as well but I would have to find someone to make the pipes for me. I have a buddy that can weld, but not sure he has what he needs to weld aluminum or ss. I would then need to find someone with experience to help me choose the turbos.

I honestly think a compound setup would fix all my issues(complaints)...or at least most. Or even a setup like yours would probably similar?

I was going to bring loss of fuel mileage into the equation, but I just did the math and it's a minor difference IMO. I have lost 1-2mpg going to the bigger injectors and t4 setup, etc. If i drove 12000 miles a yr going off the 2mpg loss @$3/gal; I'd only be spending $369 more per yr. however I might drive 6000 miles a yr; so that is only roughly $180/yr difference. that's nothing to worry about for the extra fun potential, IMO.

anyway, I appreciate your advice and will keep in in mind.

Do you have an auto or manual tranny? I'm curious what the most power is that people usually go for in a manual since you would be limited by lack of being able to shift fast enough(from what I've been told). Also, have you upgraded your bottom end at all? I imagine you have upgraged your valve springs, push rods, head bolts since you are running 350/200's?....Thanks

ZF5 manual with 3.55s. The injectors are some B codes I built not hybrids. My setup is substantial different but works for me. The engine is untouched. Just a forged rod motor with 300K miles. No studs, springs, etc... I am not using the full potential of the injectors as I use the truck these days for towing and home depot runs. I do run a blower but I still had to tune it accordingly to get the S369 to spool properly. I am running a 1.0 turbine snail. Turbo comes on strong around 2K rpms.

as far as ZF6's at altitude are concerned, I think I have a fairly solid setup.

Basic setup: swamps 250/200 hybrids, Adrenaline HPOP, typical supporting mods (studs, springs etc) and a KC 66/73 BB turbski with the .84 housing, i was one of the beta testers for the e99 version of this turbo. I've done some write-ups on here about it. tuning by Dave Armstrong, he has an excellent grasp as to what runs well up here, his first set of tunes were excellent, then he refined them a touch after i shared some datalogs from a couple of Bandimere runs.

Its a great running combo for my purposes, mostly as an adventure support mobile running around the state mountain biking, skiing, kayaking and jeeping. Loaded up with the camper in the bed and the car hauler with the jeep or suv on it, i can fly up and over the mountain passes in my "hot street" tune with tons of power available and no need to stare at the EGT gauge. smoke is manageable, but can be plentiful at altitude.

In the full out race tune its noticeably faster than the hot street tune. the ZF6 certainly makes drag passes a chore, but its still fun to get some laps in every now and then, and its an engaging challenge for sure. its been a couple of years since i've made a pass, but with my new turbo, good weather/prep and the -perfect- launch i think barely cracking into the 13's is possible.

very tough on drivetrain components though. i've broken a ton of ujoints and always carry a spare (use only top quality spicer units), i'm on my 3rd clutch, i've blown a rear end into smithereens and i once blew my 6th gear (overdrive) into a couple of pieces.

my first two clutches were southbend single disk units. these shifted fantastic and held the power, but had very short lifespans, maybe 15k miles. now i'm on a southbend "superstreet" dual disk. the superstreet is the same as the street dual disk, except the noise damping system is omitted, it rattles, but its more durable. the dual disk has proven to super durable, but shifts slower. i could shift instantly and bark the tires with the single disk, not so with the dual.

i have a couple of little tricks to keep boost response up with the ZF6.

first, be cognizant of heat and heat soak. make sure your filter gets cold air from outside the engine bay, and I have then installed insulation and heat reflecting materials to keep the airbox and ic piping as cool as practical.

I installed a turbosmart blowoff valve and controller. this makes a great difference on boost response between shifts. i lost -no- boost with the single disk clutch and have very fast response between shifts even with the dual disk and the slightly longer shift time.

I use an HKS electronic boost controller and a dual port turbosmart wastegate actuator. this insures my gate stays closed if i'm below my target boost and virtually eliminates backpressure when i'm fully into it. Its set for 30psi in my "hot street" tune and 46psi in my "race" tune.

i drove wolf creek pass back and forth last week, passing everyone with a steady 30psi of boost at 1:1 backpressure and the egt's just under 1200, i was a happy camper.