First impressions of a non vgt on my '11 6.7

I recently upgraded my 2011 F-350 with a BW s364.5 sxe and H&S dual fueler. The truck has great top end power when under boost but it has more lag than a 38r on a 7.3 with 160/100 sticks. Also smokes a lot compared to the previously mentioned 7.3 and a previously owned 6.4 with $partan tunes. I am not a tree loving hippie but when you smoke out a 3 lane highway it kind of gets annoying after awhile. Especially when people pull up to you at a light asking if your truck is ok cause of the "plumes of smoke its belching out". Another issue is I can hit 1450 pretty easy if I am not keeping an eye on the egts. These issues could be contributed to me living at 7500 ft above sea level and having 3.55 gears, but my other trucks were at the same elevation. The egt issues plagued all my trucks cause of the elevation and something I have gotten used to. I also tow heavy (25k+) and I am concerned about excessive shifting, and smoke out put but I haven't got a chance to tow with it yet. I'll report back with my findings after I get the chance. The other thing is I haven't asked my tuner to pull any of the fuel out of it yet, these are my initial thoughts on the setup and I probably will after some towing. At this point I may have been better off getting a 65.5 smr which would have also been easier to install I think. Sorry for the long read just a heads up for people looking into getting a non vgt setup. The other thing is I am not trying to take anything away from non vgt setups that have worked great for others, these are just some thoughts on a non vgt setup at a high elevation.

yeah most of your complaints can be fixed with tuning, but elevation and non - vgt ... is just that , a little more difficult .

I don't have dual fuel but will say it took the right tune for mine to be calibrated correctly for non vgt. With H&S canned tunes I could "roll coal" for miles which I did not think was cool at all. I have towed my TT through Santa Fe and didn't have issues with smoke after I changed tunes but I did have to lock the transmission in 5th so it didn't hunt back and forth between 5-6 because I was on 37s with 3:55 gears, I have since taken off the lift and went back to stock which makes towing much better. I have a 42' 5th wheel now and the truck tows in 6th just fine. I'll be in Angel Fire next month so we'll see how the altitude affects it but I don't expect issues since it wasn't bad before other than 6th gear. If you have a local shop I would recommend getting some dyno tunes done. I am going to be doing that soon because I'm not certain I'm getting everything out of the truck but my transmission has 195k miles on it and I am a bit reluctant doing it before we go to NM. You certainly need a tune for dual fuel at least, I don't think just a non-vgt tune will fix your issue with smoke.

Honestly I wish there was a shop near me that could live tune the truck but there isn't. I remember talking to DP back in the day about my 7.3, they said they would fly in and live tune the truck for me if I could line up a few other trucks as well. I talked to a few different tuners before I finished my setup and most of them didn't even ask me about elevation which was surprising to me. I built a gt500 a couple years ago and my tuner didn't ask about elevation either but made me do some data logging to make sure the tune was spot on. I am not going to mention any names but one tuner told me that they've tuned so many trucks with comparable setup that there would be no reason for live tuning. I bet there's not much left in my truck cause it makes good power but I bet it could make the same power with less smoke if it was live tuned.

What programmer do you have? Who tuned it?

Tuning........

I have a minimax and I'd rather not mention the tuner until I get a chance to talk with them. I just wanted to give a initial impression to people wanting to get into the non vgt platform. Most times people rave about their upgrades cause they just spent money on a turbo or upgrade and are bias to what they were talked into or decided to do them self. The only reason I posted this is cause I wanted to give some insight to people who can't make up their mind about what platform to go with (non vgt or vgt). I expected the non vgt to be better out of the box that's all, especially cause of how many are out on the road. If and when I get it all sorted out I'll give that feedback as well.

So did you get revised non vgt tunes to complement the turbo? If not then that's the problem and it's not really good feedback at all to anyone. Most know if you do non vgt turbo then you have to get the tunes to go with it. Just my .02

^^^ Of course I have tunes written for the non vgt.

I'm running similar set up with h and s tunes. It doesn't smoke to terrible. It clears up pretty quick.
I'd like to try some other tunes but haven't looked into it much

I'm running a 364.5 also with Craig's tuning from MPD 35in tires. I have yet to put my dual fuelers on the truck, but I wouldn't be scared to try his tunes. I believe they are around the same tunes bigrpowr was running with this set up. Good luck

HOUTX01X said:

I'm running similar set up with h and s tunes. It doesn't smoke to terrible. It clears up pretty quick.
I'd like to try some other tunes but haven't looked into it much

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hit me up when you're ready !!

I have about 7 different tunes on my truck from different tuners and some the same just revised and it makes a YUUUGGGGEEEEE difference. I wouldn't give reviews of non VGT setups until you have proper tuning. I had a 64mm non VGT and it was awesome. Now I have a 68mm non VGT and yeah its not going to spool like a VGT but I've towed with it no problem and only smoke if you make it.

^^^ and how many tunes did go through before you found one you liked?

Everybody has a non vgt setup but nobody talks about it and how much of a pain it is to get sorted out. I know everybody has a bias to what they have and that's fine. If you like your setup great I have nothing against that. At sea level its easier to make these setups work not at elevation and if you think so your being ignorant. That is my point... Another thing please read all the post before posting.

blacksmoke.r.us said:

^^^ and how many tunes did go through before you found one you liked?

Everybody has a non vgt setup but nobody talks about it and how much of a pain it is to get sorted out. I know everybody has a bias to what they have and that's fine. If you like your setup great I have nothing against that. At sea level its easier to make these setups work not at elevation and if you think so your being ignorant. That is my point... Another thing please read all the post before posting.

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I liked them all.... I went through different turbo and fuel setups over the past few years and obviously got different tunes to match my injectors and turbos.... you're new here maybe you should be the one doing some reading before posting???

What PW are you running when it fogs? Is that turned on performance? You asked me about the precision turbos if I remember right. I don't remember you mentioning the elevation, as I'm running at 650 ft. If it's fogging for more than a second or two when punched in a moderate setting, like 1400pw, it's either the tuning or elevation. It shouldn't fog more then a puff on stock or tow if it's Morgans tunes. Now if you have it on a 2300 PW tune to daily drive then that's your problem. Mine will fog a lot turned completely up and floored from an idle on the highest pw. If that's what you are doing your tires won't last 5000 miles, lol

WhiteMamba_Scorpion said:

I liked them all.... I went through different turbo and fuel setups over the past few years and obviously got different tunes to match my injectors and turbos.... you're new here maybe you should be the one doing some reading before posting???

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I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you over opinions, you've had enough setups at sea level you should know it all. I am glad the non vgt platform has worked for you, in my case its going to take a little more to sort it out. I've already spoke with a few different tuners about my altitude and they say nothing can be done about the lag. They can take some fuel out of it for the smoking issue but can't do anything about the lag. They said smaller turbo or vgt is the only way to combat lag. If fuel is added down low to help spool sooner then more smoke will be the result. By the way WTF is it to you if my setup works or isn't up to my standards? I find this on most forums, if you don't have 10,000 posts and no life, haven't spent all your daddy's money on your truck or aren't on the bandwagon with everybody's ideas then your opinion doesn't count. Like I said before as things get sorted out I will post but if it's still not up to par I will also let people know. Because this is the whole point of a forum, to help others in hopes they don't make the same mistake or take advantage of your insight.

50_shooter said:

What PW are you running when it fogs? Is that turned on performance? You asked me about the precision turbos if I remember right. I don't remember you mentioning the elevation, as I'm running at 650 ft. If it's fogging for more than a second or two when punched in a moderate setting, like 1400pw, it's either the tuning or elevation. It shouldn't fog more then a puff on stock or tow if it's Morgans tunes. Now if you have it on a 2300 PW tune to daily drive then that's your problem. Mine will fog a lot turned completely up and floored from an idle on the highest pw. If that's what you are doing your tires won't last 5000 miles, lol

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I do thank you for all the advice you've given me and much of it was taken into consideration. I have a new tune waiting to be loaded and will report back with pw and my findings.

blacksmoke.r.us said:

I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you over opinions, you've had enough setups at sea level you should know it all. I am glad the non vgt platform has worked for you, in my case its going to take a little more to sort it out. I've already spoke with a few different tuners about my altitude and they say nothing can be done about the lag. They can take some fuel out of it for the smoking issue but can't do anything about the lag. They said smaller turbo or vgt is the only way to combat lag. If fuel is added down low to help spool sooner then more smoke will be the result. By the way WTF is it to you if my setup works or isn't up to my standards? I find this on most forums, if you don't have 10,000 posts and no life, haven't spent all your daddy's money on your truck or aren't on the bandwagon with everybody's ideas then your opinion doesn't count. Like I said before as things get sorted out I will post but if it's still not up to par I will also let people know. Because this is the whole point of a forum, to help others in hopes they don't make the same mistake or take advantage of your insight.

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.... don't have 10,000 post and spend my own money... you lost me....???

blacksmoke.r.us said:

I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you over opinions, you've had enough setups at sea level you should know it all. I am glad the non vgt platform has worked for you, in my case its going to take a little more to sort it out. I've already spoke with a few different tuners about my altitude and they say nothing can be done about the lag. They can take some fuel out of it for the smoking issue but can't do anything about the lag. They said smaller turbo or vgt is the only way to combat lag. If fuel is added down low to help spool sooner then more smoke will be the result. By the way WTF is it to you if my setup works or isn't up to my standards? I find this on most forums, if you don't have 10,000 posts and no life, haven't spent all your daddy's money on your truck or aren't on the bandwagon with everybody's ideas then your opinion doesn't count. Like I said before as things get sorted out I will post but if it's still not up to par I will also let people know. Because this is the whole point of a forum, to help others in hopes they don't make the same mistake or take advantage of your insight.

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Woah, easy man.