romping problem

Bobs 7.3

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Ok within the past month Ive installed new cups, stage 2 swamps split shot injectors as I had cracked cups and everything went great except I was getting a slight romp at idle so I figured it was the ts6 I had with canned tunes so I sent a new ts6 to Swamps for the free reburn for the injectors but before that came back I installed a new icp and it got a little better so I recieved the chip and just installed it and the injectors are a ton more quiet with the Swamp tunes and the tunes work really well but the romp now is more then before. The engine was at operating temp so I haven't tried it cold till tomorrow morning. I then went and installed a new black cps I got off a neighbor that had it for a spare and sold the truck but still the same. Besides the romp at idle and a bit of a miss right at first when reeving up in park it runs great. It didn't have this romp with the old injectors and they had 257k miles on them so id believe it shouldn't have it now. I run rotella t6 5w-40 full synethic due to it helped the old injectors when cold but could it cause these stage 2s to do the romping because its a lighter oil? Could it be the hpop is at the end of its life as its original with 257k miles on it? The ipr was replaced with a oem one but man that was over 5 years ago could it be going bad? Id love to straighten this out as it runs great besides the romping and slight miss when reeving but the miss disappears right at 1100 rpms and revvs right up with no stumbling. Any help is greatly appreciated. I have torque pro and the Bluetooth adapter so I can monitor some stuff but does anyone have a list of correct percentages and pressures for individual readings to compare to like ipr,icp,pulse width,ect ect? after 2600 bucks im a bit perturbed as it didn't do this before doing cups, injectors and I also added the riffraff fuel crossover and used an AD injector in hole 8 instead of the LL injector.
 

dsberman94

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Rotella alone can cause poor idle. Try delo 15-40 from Walmart or even better message jimdawg on here for some lubrication engineers oil for your truck. Definitely more expensive than rotella but it's good chit. 10k intervals with an oil test done at 5k just to make sure. Try a different oil and see if the romp goes away.
 

Bobs 7.3

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I used to use rotella 15-40 for years but had to go to the synethic 5-40 as it would romp like crazy when cold outside and not plugged in. The 5-40 worked well for that and gave me better fuel miledge but Im thinking it may be too free flowing or something for these stage 2 splits. I didn't mind the more costs and liked the idea of synethic as I run it in everything but when I considered going back to 15-40 in the summer months a lot said it would cause a ton of oil leaks as the synethic swells the seals and then they wear to that size then if going back to non synethic the seals will shrink back down and leak like a pig. It sounds nuts but I have no idea what the difference between the 2 are so just stuck with the full synethic.
 

dsberman94

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You can get 5-40 synthetic from lubrication engineers too. I'd suggest switching to something different though. Rotella just sucks altogether. Not sure there's such a thing as too free flowing for injectors. I've never had a seal issue with mine and I used to switch back and forth. Pretty sure a bunch of guys on here have switched back and forth. Delo makes a 5-40 synthetic also if you wanted to stay with synthetic.
 

PsdPullerJr

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Friend of mine tried that synthetic rotella once, hated it. Drained it with less than 500 miles on it. I'm running the LE 15-40 in 2 trucks, and have no romp issues.
 

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I have only been using delo LE 15-40 for about over 5 years now. Wonderful oil and I have no plans to switch. My 200% nozzles idle like factory truck on a factory tune from a completely cold engine down to 15° to a hot engine on a 90+° day. If your problem persists I would look at ICP/IPR%/PW at idle and see how well it maintains the stability. If the numbers are jumping wildly it can help narrow down the issue.
 

mandkole

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For one of a few different reasons, there is a cylinder contribution issue that the PCM is trying to compensate for with increased ICP/PW. Your off idle miss shows one or two are not keeping up. A bad injector or two could be the culprit-- it happens and especially with remans. Identify the offending cylinder(s) with the contribution, maybe swap an injector to see if it follows.

I'd get Swamps on the phone and discuss troubleshooting with them too.

Once you know the offenders and take the VCs off, you may even want to disable and crank the motor to see if there are any noticeable inj leaks at those cyls.
 

Bobs 7.3

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For one of a few different reasons, there is a cylinder contribution issue that the PCM is trying to compensate for with increased ICP/PW. Your off idle miss shows one or two are not keeping up. A bad injector or two could be the culprit-- it happens and especially with remans. Identify the offending cylinder(s) with the contribution, maybe swap an injector to see if it follows.

I'd get Swamps on the phone and discuss troubleshooting with them too.

Once you know the offenders and take the VCs off, you may even want to disable and crank the motor to see if there are any noticeable inj leaks at those cyls.
Well that sucks as with 1630.00 into injectors you would think they would be tested and guaranteed like it says they are. I in no way can take this engine back apart to start fiddling with injectors as I took 4 days off to do the job to begin with. This is the reason I spent what I did instead of just swapping old good ones in. :fustrate:
 

Bobs 7.3

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I have only been using delo LE 15-40 for about over 5 years now. Wonderful oil and I have no plans to switch. My 200% nozzles idle like factory truck on a factory tune from a completely cold engine down to 15° to a hot engine on a 90+° day. If your problem persists I would look at ICP/IPR%/PW at idle and see how well it maintains the stability. If the numbers are jumping wildly it can help narrow down the issue.
I can check those. Do I check them hot or cold? Whats a good set of numbers to compare to for each one? Not a newbie here but never had to dig this deep into it before.
 

Bobs 7.3

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ok I did some monitoring on the engine hot and this is what it showed.
IPR = 14.7 KOEO, 8.5 to 8.9 at idle back and forth every 3 to 4 seconds.
HPOP = 12.5 psi koeo, 476 to 491 at idle and varies in between every 3 to 4 seconds, 2,286.3 tops at wot in hot street tune.
injector pulse width = 0.0 koeo, 2968.3 to 3096.2 at idle and varies in between every 3 to 4 seconds.
koeo= key on engine off.
Any ideas? That's about all I can scan or check as I have no top shelf stuff to monitor further. Could the hpop be just wore due to age and the stage 2s are just using too much oil for it to supply? I cant figure out why the hpop/ icp is reading 12.5 with the engine not even running. Id think it would read 0 as its not pumping anything.
 
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psduser1

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Just guessing, but maybe you need the idle icp bumped up just a touch. If youre reading 475 psi at idle , minus 12ish psi, I'd say that's at the lower end of the scale. Maybe give your tuner a call?
 

superpsd

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Your IPR cycle seems good. That is typically as most are around 10% at idle. The ICP seems mostly stable but bumping it a hair may help. I run my ICP at 600 for idle. Can you run a CCT test?
 

dsberman94

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I'd still say run a different oil. As said idle icp may need touched up a hair as well. A little higher idle icp should help with cold weather smoke too.

If needed I can have you under valve covers in a half hour. Swap a couple injectors around and test it out before putting the covers back on in probably an hour. That's if you get a day off or something like that with nice weather.
 

Bobs 7.3

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Thanks everyone im going to give Swamps an email and see if they will bump it up a little at idle as when I think about it I get a slight romping just when accelerating to like 100 to200 rpms over idle but then it goes away and runs very well. I was a little worried about the hpop numbers as when I had the stock sticks and same hpop it would run from 2700 to 2970ish at full throttle and now its maxing at 2286.3 . didn't like the 12.5 hpop reading when not even running but then again I don't remember if it did that before or not.
 

Bobs 7.3

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I'd still say run a different oil. As said idle icp may need touched up a hair as well. A little higher idle icp should help with cold weather smoke too.

If needed I can have you under valve covers in a half hour. Swap a couple injectors around and test it out before putting the covers back on in probably an hour. That's if you get a day off or something like that with nice weather.
Im going to switch it out to the delo 15-40 next week and see what that does also. I believe its the blue bottle at wal mart or is there something compairibly priced that's better locally?
 

Bobs 7.3

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Your IPR cycle seems good. That is typically as most are around 10% at idle. The ICP seems mostly stable but bumping it a hair may help. I run my ICP at 600 for idle. Can you run a CCT test?

I have nothing here to run a CCT test just the torque pro app I use. Im hoping its not injector O-rings or a bad injector doing it as I cant tear that far back into it and its my daily driver. If I knew somehow or somewhere it could be tested and that it definatly is an injector or O-rings then atleast id know what side and or injector it is then I may be able to get the time to tear into it to do that one but Swamps has to make these as there called in and ordered and that's more down time to send this one in and wait to have it tested then them make one and finally mail it to me. Man that be 2 to 3 weeks again. I hate to throw hundreds in parts into it and come to find it was none of them. when its cold like first start no romp. start when hot romp or at idle at the red light it will romp sometimes and sometimes its smooth as could be. Did the same thing with the other ts6 with canned tunes on it but those tunes ran for 5 years no problems. Those tunes also made these new injectors a lot noisier then the Swamps tunes for these injectors they put on the new chip. The canned tunes also would peak boost at 33 to 35lbs so I used my foot to regulate it where I wanted it but these new tunes will spike to 26 to 27lbs and flatten out to 21lbs and that I don't understand either.
 

ghohouston

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Your producing low icp in the hot tune. You have a leak or a pump that cannot keep up with the demand, provided icp sensor is reporting correctly to the pcm.
 

psduser1

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Your producing low icp in the hot tune. You have a leak or a pump that cannot keep up with the demand, provided icp sensor is reporting correctly to the pcm.

I didn't read where he said it was romping after a wot run? I'll agree that 22 is low.
Could test the pump with a mechanical gauge, see what the real numbers are.
 

mandkole

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Well that sucks as with 1630.00 into injectors you would think they would be tested and guaranteed like it says they are. I in no way can take this engine back apart to start fiddling with injectors as I took 4 days off to do the job to begin with. This is the reason I spent what I did instead of just swapping old good ones in. :fustrate:

I hear ya. We did that with a buddy's truck and stage ones. Swamps swapped two of them. I had the covers on/off the obs so many times, I forget.

The guys have noted some good ideas. It just feels like there's a leak somewhere.
 

Bobs 7.3

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I didn't read where he said it was romping after a wot run? I'll agree that 22 is low.
Could test the pump with a mechanical gauge, see what the real numbers are.
It seems if I just run it easy say normal driving it will not romp say little here and there to none but if I get in it good then it will romp at idle a lot. Not a bad romp like I had when cold and old tired injectors with 15-40 oil but more as a baby romp. If I put it in the high idle tune when hot or cold it romps a worst then baby romps. Start up it only cranks 2 to 3 revolutions and fires right off every time hot or cold. I may try making a ipr removal tool and I have a rebuild kit here and maybie the ipr has something in it causing it to stick who knows as I haven't had it out in 5 years. Change oil every 5 to 7k miles and have always run 5w-40 t6 rotella for the past 8 years with no problems but maybie back to 15-40 delo oil wouldn't hurt even the motorcraft oil but I haven't heard too much on that stuff. Could be time for an Adrenalin pump and pull the old stocker. Also next time it starts romping Ill shut it off and try unplugging the icp (even thought it and the pig tail are new and it romped with the old one I took out) and see if it does romp then. If it does then ill try leaving that unplugged and unplug the oil temp sensor as that will eliminate 2 of the 3 items that make up the feedback to the ecm and if it still romps ive been reading its either the ipr or a weak hpop. What would I need to make a mechanical pressure gauge to test the hpop?
 

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