Went Back to a vgt.. review of kc 1.5 turbo

Chatham036 · Oct 14, 2016

I just placed the order for a s363/68/.91

We will see what happens.

Mdub707 · Oct 14, 2016

slc6oh said:
iirc, wot, converter locked, map maxed at 31psi, ebp would be reading 33-34psi.

This still leaves me scratching my head. I max my 35psi gauge with little effort and others have reported closer to ~42psi with our setups on similar tunes. I'm stuck guessing since I only have this 35psi gauge and little ambition to change it LOL

Jay, the best thing I did for driving with my non VGT 362 was add the PHP FICM tuning. Helped spool up tremendously.

KCTurbos · Oct 14, 2016

Mdub707 said:
This still leaves me scratching my head. I max my 35psi gauge with little effort and others have reported closer to ~42psi with our setups on similar tunes. I'm stuck guessing since I only have this 35psi gauge and little ambition to change it LOL

Jay, the best thing I did for driving with my non VGT 362 was add the PHP FICM tuning. Helped spool up tremendously.

With my s362sxe I could easily hit 40-42psi down low around 2500rpms... but boost would not hold. By 4000rpms boost was down around 27-32psi and EBP would be sky high. Granted I was running 205s

Lssboy · Oct 23, 2016

Chatham036 said:
I just placed the order for a s363/68/.91

We will see what happens.

i got a 63/72/.91 waiting on the shelf ! Cant wait to see what will happen too.

Chatham036 · Oct 25, 2016

My 225/30 injectors matched with this s363SX-E is a very solid combination. There is more lag than I would expect from a smaller VGT charger BUT it spools VERY well. Cruising at 80, approximately 2,250 rpm, I hold around 5-6 psi in overdrive. As I approach a hill, the turbo will simply start building boost up to 9 - 10 psi as I pull over the hill.

The biggest thing I wanted to do is hold 600 plus rwhp while having the ability to tow 15,000 lbs.
I hooked up to our 28' enclosed trailer and headed down the highway. I had no issues being in over drive and pulling the trailer at 80 mph. EGTs were sitting around 1,100 degrees.

If I hit the tow haul to kick it down to 5th (converter locked) I would see the EGTs quickly drop to 800-900

KCTurbos · Oct 25, 2016

Chatham036 said:
My 225/30 injectors matched with this s363SX-E is a very solid combination. There is more lag than I would expect from a smaller VGT charger BUT it spools VERY well. Cruising at 80, approximately 2,250 rpm, I hold around 5-6 psi in overdrive. As I approach a hill, the turbo will simply start building boost up to 9 - 10 psi as I pull over the hill.

The biggest thing I wanted to do is hold 600 plus rwhp while having the ability to tow 15,000 lbs.
I hooked up to our 28' enclosed trailer and headed down the highway. I had no issues being in over drive and pulling the trailer at 80 mph. EGTs were sitting around 1,100 degrees.

If I hit the tow haul to kick it down to 5th (converter locked) I would see the EGTs quickly drop to 800-900

That is similar to my experience with my s364.5, except maybe just a little laggier. It would just barely start building boost around 1800rpms, if I pushed it hard with the tq converter locked then I could get maybe 5psi at 2000rpms, once I got above 2200rpms it would really start to come alive.

The main issue I would run into is I dont tow at 80mph, I am usually around 65mph which puts me at about 1900rpms and the s364.5 would basically do nothing at that point unless I smoke out the cars behind me to push the turbo to get it to lite.

Also when just daily driving around town I don't spend much time above 2200rpms, in normal driving with heavy traffic I rarely see above 2000rpms. So I would basically putt putt around with 0-2psi of boost all day having to take it easy so I don't smoke out traffic. Now find me an open road with no traffic and open her up and it would bring a smile to my face... but that does not happen very often in a big city.

Switching back to VGT is an awesome feeling... I forgot what it was like to see 5psi at 1500rpms and already be at 15-20psi by 2000rpms with no smoke and no issues. It makes daily driving so much more enjoyable IMO.

Luke@MillerPerformance · Oct 25, 2016

Chatham036 said:
My 225/30 injectors matched with this s363SX-E is a very solid combination. There is more lag than I would expect from a smaller VGT charger BUT it spools VERY well. Cruising at 80, approximately 2,250 rpm, I hold around 5-6 psi in overdrive. As I approach a hill, the turbo will simply start building boost up to 9 - 10 psi as I pull over the hill.

The biggest thing I wanted to do is hold 600 plus rwhp while having the ability to tow 15,000 lbs.
I hooked up to our 28' enclosed trailer and headed down the highway. I had no issues being in over drive and pulling the trailer at 80 mph. EGTs were sitting around 1,100 degrees.

If I hit the tow haul to kick it down to 5th (converter locked) I would see the EGTs quickly drop to 800-900

Was that on the ole Hot Sauce file?

Chatham036 · Oct 25, 2016

Yes sir

It was on da saucey hotness

Derek@Vision Diesel · Oct 25, 2016

We were just getting ready to set up a truck with 190/75s and try out a non vgt 364.5SXE with the 74mm turbine wheel and .91 a/r housing.
Would have a john wood towmaster transmission, full fuel system, aftermarket intercooler etc..
Stock cam and stock intake manifold

Customer currently has a KC stage 2 and stock injectors.

He is just wanting something out of the ordinary that he can drive on the weekends and have some fun with. If the 364 is going to be a nightmare to daily drive, would a stage 2 cam or a ported manifold improve it enough to make it worth while or should we go back to a 68mm turbine wheel and maybe the 62 or 63mm version?

Derek@Vision Diesel · Oct 25, 2016

Maybe it would be wise to go s362/68 paired with 190/75s

cjfarm111 · Oct 25, 2016

After reading all the vgt vs non vgt threads I personally am going to stick with a stage
1.5 on stock stocks or stage 2 if I go with some 155cc injectors. I hate lag and smoke and will give up a little top end no to have either.

KCTurbos · Oct 25, 2016

I would not say the s364.5 is a "nightmare" to drive. It just takes a little getting used to. It spools just a little slower than our stage 3 turbo and makes just a little more peak HP. They both tow about the same, just have to keep your rpms up. Neither turbo will like towing under 2200rpms when pulling any grade or pulling a heavy load.

I would not drop all the way back down to an s362 with 68 turbine... because it spools slower off the line and makes less peak power when compared to the stage 2. The power also falls off much quicker than the stage 2 (but it does make more peak torque for about 200rpms)

IMO I would either stick with the stage 2 or jump up to a s363 or s64.5 with 74mm turbine.

I WOULD NOT run a 68mm turbine with anything bigger than an s362 or EBP will go through the roof. With the s362sxe and 68 turbine I would see almost 3:1 boost:ebp ratio at WOT in the upper rpms. Adding a larger comp wheel and keeping the same small turbine wheel will make that even worse.

Derek@Vision Diesel · Oct 25, 2016

KCTurbos said:
I would not say the s364.5 is a "nightmare" to drive. It just takes a little getting used to. It spools just a little slower than our stage 3 turbo and makes just a little more peak HP. They both tow about the same, just have to keep your rpms up. Neither turbo will like towing under 2200rpms when pulling any grade or pulling a heavy load.

I would not drop all the way back down to an s362 with 68 turbine... because it spools slower off the line and makes less peak power when compared to the stage 2. The power also falls off much quicker than the stage 2 (but it does make more peak torque for about 200rpms)

IMO I would either stick with the stage 2 or jump up to a s363 or s64.5 with 74mm turbine.

I WOULD NOT run a 68mm turbine with anything bigger than an s362 or EBP will go through the roof. With the s362sxe and 68 turbine I would see almost 3:1 boost:ebp ratio at WOT in the upper rpms. Adding a larger comp wheel and keeping the same small turbine wheel will make that even worse.

Wow, it was really that bad huh?

We have a 364.5/74 sitting here on the shelf. My thought was to do a stage 2 cam and ported manifold to aid just a little bit in spool and stick with this charger.
If we are going to stick with the 74mm turbine, no reason to drop to the 63 for just a TAD bit of spool and quite a drop off in flow capability.

Really surprising you are seeing such high back pressure as there are a LOT of people running the 68mm turbine in the 550+hp range

KCTurbos · Oct 25, 2016

Mine would be a 1:1 ratio and hit 40psi of boost and 40psi of ebp at 2500 rpms and then the turbine housing would choke out. By 4000rpms it would be sitting at around 25psi of boost and 75psi of EBP.

Here is a video of the s362sxe on the dyno. Made 604hp. Look at the gauge on the bottom left. Green is boost and Red is EBP. It will give you an idea of what I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbdKT_hEHqE

Derek@Vision Diesel · Oct 25, 2016

KCTurbos said:
Mine would be a 1:1 ratio and hit 40psi of boost and 40psi of ebp at 2500 rpms and then the turbine housing would choke out. By 4000rpms it would be sitting at around 25psi of boost and 75psi of EBP.

Here is a video of the s362sxe on the dyno. Made 604hp. Look at the gauge on the bottom left. Green is boost and Red is EBP. It will give you an idea of what I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbdKT_hEHqE

What injectors/intake manifold/cam with that dyno run?

KCTurbos · Oct 26, 2016

Derek@Vision Diesel said:
What injectors/intake manifold/cam with that dyno run?

205/30
T500 HPOP
Odawg Intake
Colt S2 cam

Here is a dyno graph that might help. Only swapped turbos with no other mods. 362sxe vs 364.5sxe vs 369sxe

mikeeg02 · Oct 26, 2016

KCTurbos said:
Mine would be a 1:1 ratio and hit 40psi of boost and 40psi of ebp at 2500 rpms and then the turbine housing would choke out. By 4000rpms it would be sitting at around 25psi of boost and 75psi of EBP.

Here is a video of the s362sxe on the dyno. Made 604hp. Look at the gauge on the bottom left. Green is boost and Red is EBP. It will give you an idea of what I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbdKT_hEHqE

Who makes that dual pressure gauge?

Chatham036 · Oct 26, 2016

KCTurbos said:
I WOULD NOT run a 68mm turbine with anything bigger than an s362 or EBP will go through the roof. With the s362sxe and 68 turbine I would see almost 3:1 boost:ebp ratio at WOT in the upper rpms. Adding a larger comp wheel and keeping the same small turbine wheel will make that even worse.

on the s363SX-E I am running, it has the 68mm turbine with .91 a/r

I don't see excessive spikes in EBP. Typically the EBP settles around 40 - 45 psi at WOT

I am running our 200x PCM tune with the mass fuel desired table pulled back closer to our 100 Performance tune.
Also running the Atlas40 FICM tune.

For me (as Charlie already knows) it was a debate for cost vs benefit. I wanted to remain in the 600 rwhp realm while having the ability to tow. We discussed a stage 2 - stage 3 turbo but the cost is more than twice what the s363sx-e costs.

KCTurbos · Oct 26, 2016

mikeeg02 said:
Who makes that dual pressure gauge?

Here is a link to where I bought mine. I love it.

https://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=637

KCTurbos · Oct 26, 2016

Chatham036 said:
on the s363SX-E I am running, it has the 68mm turbine with .91 a/r

I don't see excessive spikes in EBP. Typically the EBP settles around 40 - 45 psi at WOT

I am running our 200x PCM tune with the mass fuel desired table pulled back closer to our 100 Performance tune.
Also running the Atlas40 FICM tune.

For me (as Charlie already knows) it was a debate for cost vs benefit. I wanted to remain in the 600 rwhp realm while having the ability to tow. We discussed a stage 2 - stage 3 turbo but the cost is more than twice what the s363sx-e costs.

What kind of EBP gauge are you using?

I would love to know (just for reference) what EBP/Boost you see when holding at WOT run all the way up to 4000rpms