Injector install questions

Lang

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Tomorrow Ill be installing my new injectors but have a few questions. Have seen few different how to's, but some take out the (2) 1/8 in each head letting oil drain for 30 min others take out the back 2 injectors first. I do not have a vacuum to pull oil out of my injectors. My plan is to to crank it over without the glow plugs out to push out all the fluid. Any advise on this? Also where exactly do you pry on the injectors? Not clear in any videos and havent found a pic
 

stroker2

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When i did mine, i took out the back two injectors first and let it drain for a bit and removed the rest. Also take all glow plugs out. When you pry, make sure the UVCH is out and pry under the injector hold down clamp or whatever its called (it will flop around when u remove the bolt) and pry off the head and it will pop right out.

When you go to start it, put valve covers back on (snug) with a couple bolts and BARELY bump the starter (with injectors unplugged) then after a few bumps, bump it a bit harder a few times then you can crank it over a few times. Then put everything back together


If you have a superduty, or electric fuel setup, cycle the key a few times before cranking to prime the fuel system and then crank on it. You may have to refill the hpop resirvoir but it should fire up pretty quick
 

78f100

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:whs:
If you don't put the vc's back on it makes a huge mess, I sprayed oil everywhere on my first one. I have never pulled the back ones first or drained the rail, right or wrong. I think doing it that way just keeps all the oil in those 2 holes instead of some oil in all holes. I really don't think it matters as long as you leave the glow plugs out and crank it over a good bit ( just bumping it at first) to clear the cylinders. Pry on the hold down not the injector body. Then again I'm not a professional...lol.
 
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Black 02

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DING DING DING !

I Always bar it by hand first. Always

Yep!

Installed valve covers is a good thing and I also never drain the rail. Never wanted to strip those little allan screws. After using the bar, the starter will blast that oil out the glow plug hole. Reinstall and hammer down!
 

Arisley

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Another little trick I always use. I smack the top of the injectors with a rubber mallet before tightening the clamp. When done, I lay a straight edge across the tops of the injectors. It will tell you in a quick second if one is not seated.
 

Lang

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Thanks guys. I bought a mity vac for $30 to make sure everything goes right
 

Black 02

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Another little trick I always use. I smack the top of the injectors with a rubber mallet before tightening the clamp. When done, I lay a straight edge across the tops of the injectors. It will tell you in a quick second if one is not seated.

Need to be careful doing that. You can damage the internals of the injectors if you do it too much. (So I've been told)
 

SDstroker

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I never barred or drained anything.. It took me 30 min and I had zero problems

What happened to your engine?......... I keeed

Might not be but its piece of mind for me, along with a straight edge and clean cups.
 

OSCS

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What happened to your engine?......... I keeed

Might not be but its piece of mind for me, along with a straight edge and clean cups.

Yeah yeah.. We all know that had nothing to do with it. I just don't think it's necessary.serious question, why do you guys go through the trouble? What are you trying to prevent?
 

TARM

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I went and pulled these sections from the notes I had written up doing my first few injector swaps. If I have something out of order or typo'd sorry about that. Like I said I pulled parts here and there from my notes that I thought my be helpful.

Swamps has a good instruction set for doing injectors as well: Swamps Diesel Performance: Tips to help remove and install Power Stroke injectors


Cover any holes in the head that nuts bolts GP etc could fall down in and create a much bigger project.

Remove the oil deflectors from all the injectors or you can do them one at a time as you go. 5mm Hex key or socket

Pull the back/rear injector on each side: 8mm socket 1/4" socket

When you can pull the first one I as quickly as possible stuff a clean rag down in the hole of each. You will likely need to replace it but I end up preventing almost all but a 1-2 tablespoons of oil from going into the cylinder. (I vacuum it out and thats about all I get out)

The issue is if you do not vacuum it out the only way to clean out the piston bowl is to crank the engine over with the starter. From someone that has watched it shoot out of the GP port without the VC on it comes out with surprising velocity. I bet it would sting if you got hit with the stream with a good starter and batteries. LOL So if you are going to not suck the oil out make sure the VC is back in place.

Clean up each injector port very well (the cup specifically). If there is heavy buildup in the cups from a bad copper washer seal use a wire bore brass/copper bristle brush to clean it. They do make specific brushes for this. Do not use anything sharp to scrape etc as the cup is soft and will scratch and dent which is not good. Make sure you count a copper washer on each injector you pull to ensure you did not leave one behind. Still do a visual and inspection in each port to be sure no washer got left in. Carefully inspect each cup from top to bottom for any cracks, pits, deep scratches etc..

Once again just a reminder to cover any holes in the head were bolts nuts or Gp could fall down into. Takes no time, so simple, and may not be needed but.......

Pull all the glow plugs. 10mm deep-well 1/4" socket A 6" piece of 1/4" hose. Once you have loosened the GP almost the all the way push the hose end onto the GP tip firmly. Finish spinning the GP the last couple turns with the hose and pull out with the hose. (This is a god-send for big guerrilla hands on the removal/install)

Check each injector port one last time for debris and being clean. Give it a good wipe with a clean rag and not one that drops lint everywhere.

Oil up each injector body and o-rings before you install it. Carefully line up the injectors with the port and let it slide in until the first o-ring hits the cup side and you feel firm resistance. I seat it in carefully lining it up as far as it will go with just hand power. At that point then get up over it with the heel of your hand and body weight over it shove down on it with your body weight. Basically "bump" it in. Just make sure you are pushing down inline with the port hole. You will almost always hear a pop or thunk as the injector hits the bottom of the cup. If you do not feel that thud as it bottoms out get a plastic body dead blow hammer or other soft head hammer. Give it a couple solid not crazy power hits. It should seat. (You can confirm with a straight edge cross the tops of the injectors.)

Once a injector is seated and you have dropped down the hold down clamp, I like to grab it and slightly rotate it to recenter it and line it up perfectly with the hold down bolt hole.

Install the hold down bolt. Torque down the bolt to the spec of 10ftlb / 120inlb /13.5Nm. I like to still give the top of the injector a light wrap with the dead blow and then retq the bolt one last time. It can make a difference. ( Note: I check the top bolts as well. retq the top bolts as well to confirm.)

Install the Oil deflectors. 9ftlb/108inlb 5mm Hex Key or Socket 1xRetq.

take all the towels etc off the head, anything blocking holes etc.. With the GP still out install the VC back on the heads with a few easy to get to bolt locations. (no wiring hooked up etc) Its up to you..... I hand crank the engine over a few times by hand. 24mm 1/2" -3/4" socket long wrench or bar. Then since no vacuum crank the engine over for 15 seconds via the starter. You could just starter crank it from the get go as the GP are out but IMO its best to get what will come out under much lower pressure and vel by hand turning first. Like I said up to you..... FYI just by hand cranking with no GP or injectors in I was able to shoot one of the towels in a injector port out and across the driveway.

Pull VC.

Clean up any mess from the oil.

Install the GPs. Use the 6" piece of 1/4" hose pushed over the GP tip securely. Using it to start the threads. I spin them till the hose will not turn them any more. Pull it off and go to the 10mm deep well 1/4" socket. Torque to 14ftlb/163inlb/19Nm 1xRetq


Now hand turn over the engine again. With the cylinder now buttoned up, while harder, it should turn over. I do it for one full cycle so I know each piston has gone to TDC and there is no hydro locking going on.

If everything is good. Hook up all the UVCH connections, Do one final check on everything i.e run a striaght edge one last time check any bolts you feel the need to for tq etc..... Finally button up the VC and connect the main wiring harness.

Pull the ICP sensor drivers side and either unhook one HPOP hose line from the head connector or the closest to the front oil rail plug on the passenger side. Whatever is closest to the front. Fill each up with oil until its to the threads edge. Reinstall the plug or hose ends.

Pull the inspection plug or EOP sensor from the top of the HPOP Reservoir. Fill it up with oil. Reinstall. Crank the engine over a couple times. Pull and refill. Do that a couple times.

Hook up anything left that had to come off to get to the injectors etc...


Crank for 30 second periods until the engine fires. With good batteries and starter it should lite in the first two tries. If not check the HPOP res to make sure its full.



FYI I found its much easier to install the UVCH as well as get the VC in and out on the passenger side by first pulling the V belt and unbolting and setting aside the AC compressor. You would be surprised at how much that clears up room and its only 4 bolts. DO yourself a favor and put anti seize on those bolt thread and shafts. They are long bolts going into alum and galling and rust seizing happens a lot.

If you have trouble getting the VC bolts that are up against the firewall started and tightened a trick that works for me.... First use a wobbly or 360 swivel socket or adapter if at all possible but beyond that use a piece or two of duct tape to hold the bolt in the socket. This will allow you to start it by hand with the socket and then get the wrench on it.
 

TARM

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Yeah yeah.. We all know that had nothing to do with it. I just don't think it's necessary.serious question, why do you guys go through the trouble? What are you trying to prevent?

Which part? The draining and evacuating of the cylinders and or the straight edge?

For the first part. Where did you learn to install injectors? Self taught by just figuring it out or did you read or someone teach you? Not at all being a SA here.

Its to prevent hydro-locking the engine and damaging the rotating assembly.

Then consider the oil viscosity. Its not like diesel fuel. Its stays put more or less comparatively.

Consider this: 1/2 quart in each oil rail. So quart total all flowing into the cylinders. Maybe more in one that another depending on the order you remove them. But for best case lets assume equal distribution and run some numbers:

1 quart is what almost 1000 cc of oil.

The dish or bowl of the piston is what 40cc?

40ccx8 if they were all equal is only 320 or about 1/3 of that quart of oil.

125cc (closer to 110cc) of oil per cylinder of which the dish only holds 40cc.

The rest of the oil is sitting on to of the piston. Close to a 1/2 cup.

What is the clearance spec between head and piston on these engines? I honestly do not recall but something like .0055 is coming to mind. 80cc of oil in the cylinder with the dish already full would take up what 1" or so... Does not sound pretty.

Think about what can happen if you start cranking the engine over. Where is that oil going to go before the valves open as the piston reaches TDC.

Last time I checked the force it takes to compress oil is WAY WAY more than what it take to compress air.

Maybe a starter can not create enough force before the oil can be forced out thru the valve if it does not full lock to do any damage? How far is the piston face from the head when teh valve begins to open anyways?
Regardless its nothing I would ever put to chance with my engine.

Besides its nothing to pull the GP and crank the engine over at the very least. For me its super easy to pull and vacuum 90% of the oil right out.

Would not want to chance maybe starting a bend in a rod or wrist pin etc to then have it throw a rod and window a block down the road and have me wondering how that happened. :shrug::D:D


Just having some fun.


Seriously though I have not seen a single instruction set for changing a injector for any authority that does not mandate preventing and or evacuating the cylinder in some way of the oil. This is why I asked the first question about if you had basically taught yourself how to do a injector swap basically just by doing it and figuring it out as you went. I could see that.
 
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OSCS

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Which part? The draining and evacuating of the cylinders and or the straight edge?

For the first part. Where did you learn to install injectors? Self taught by just figuring it out or did you read or someone teach you? Not at all being a SA here.

Its to prevent hydro-locking the engine and damaging the rotating assembly.

Then consider the oil viscosity. Its not like diesel fuel. Its stays put more or less comparatively.

Consider this: 1/2 quart in each oil rail. So quart total all flowing into the cylinders. Maybe more in one that another depending on the order you remove them. But for best case lets assume equal distribution and run some numbers:

1 quart is what almost 1000 cc of oil.

The dish or bowl of the piston is what 40cc?

40ccx8 if they were all equal is only 320 or about 1/3 of that quart of oil.

125cc (closer to 110cc) of oil per cylinder of which the dish only holds 40cc.

The rest of the oil is sitting on to of the piston. Close to a 1/2 cup.

What is the clearance spec between head and piston on these engines? I honestly do not recall but something like .0055 is coming to mind. 80cc of oil in the cylinder with the dish already full would take up what 1" or so... Does not sound pretty.

Think about what can happen if you start cranking the engine over. Where is that oil going to go before the valves open as the piston reaches TDC.

Last time I checked the force it takes to compress oil is WAY WAY more than what it take to compress air.

Maybe a starter can not create enough force before the oil can be forced out thru the valve if it does not full lock to do any damage? How far is the piston face from the head when teh valve begins to open anyways?
Regardless its nothing I would ever put to chance with my engine.

Besides its nothing to pull the GP and crank the engine over at the very least. For me its super easy to pull and vacuum 90% of the oil right out.

Would not want to chance maybe starting a bend in a rod or wrist pin etc to then have it throw a rod and window a block down the road and have me wondering how that happened. :shrug::D:D


Just having some fun.


Seriously though I have not seen a single instruction set for changing a injector for any authority that does not mandate preventing and or evacuating the cylinder in some way of the oil. This is why I asked the first question about if you had basically taught yourself how to do a injector swap basically just by doing it and figuring it out as you went. I could see that.

taught myself, i guess i never really thought about hydro locking, thats why i asked the question. Everytime i have done an injector install i have changed valve springs as well so the engine gets manualy turned over quite a few times before starting. What about disconnecting the CPS sensor to pre lube the engine before an actual fire? would that not do the same as manualy turning over the motor evacuating all the oil out of the cylinders without actually firing the motor?
 
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Arisley

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Only if the glow plugs are removed so the stuff laying on top of the pistons has somewhere to go.

Barring it over is easy, I have a ratchet attachment that turns my 30" breaker bar into a ratchet. Bar it over for two revolutions to clear most of the junk. Crank it over a few times to clear the rest. Do an oil change to remove the bulk of the junk that got in the oil. I use cheap oil when I do this change. Oil change after a couple of heat cycles to clean what got left behind.
 

SouthFlstrokin'

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i pulled the plugs and bumped the starter, then used a rbber mallet like Arisley suggested. USE A STRAIGHT EDGE to make sure they are seated. good luck. its pretty straight forward..... also make sure you lube up them orings with good clean oil.
 

TARM

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Yep you hit it and I figured you had taught yourself. As far as getting the oil out and everything prelubed if you unplug the wiring harness as it will already be unhooked anyways for the swap you are taking care of it no firing while it cranks over. The issue for using it to prime the system is you are working the starter and draining the bats so pulling a few plugs and prefilling to me seems the better choice but that is what I find a good choice you may prefer doing it differently.
 

78f100

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There is definitely enough oil going into the cyl's to hydro lock and possible bend a rod. I have a weak motor in the shop that I pulled the injectors out of and put some stockers back in to fill the holes. I tried to bar it over just to see how much oil actually goes in the holes. It turned about 1/4 turn and bound up on the oil. So I would never try spinning it with the starter, without the gp's out.
 

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