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  #11  
Old 03-01-2020, 07:53 AM
erbear28 erbear28 is offline
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Originally Posted by Connor M View Post
Hey buddy, glad to see another OGTT guy here.


I’m everywhere lol just not that active on here
  #12  
Old 03-01-2020, 11:47 AM
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I already have evidence this is true. So mark that one off the list.
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Ford did a good job with underhood airflow so it really comes down to personal preference. Open or closed is fine
Glad to hear some of you can back up my hypothesis! This gives me hope I won't have to do any further modifications to get more cool air to the intake. For my own purposes and to keep this write up and review complete I will still gather data after the install and post my findings.

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Can read this now but it looks like you’re doing an awesome writeup, I want to read this later
Thanks! Sounds like I'm on the right track to being informative and unbiased.

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You have to remember in a turbo diesel, the compression from the turbo heats the air up.
A lot.
Then the air goes through the intercooler, which should bring it down to just over the outside air temp. The difference between the fenderwell and engine bay temperatures is likely negligible in the end and the flow rates of the open element overcomes any air temp differences.
You are correct the turbo heats up the air a ton and the intercooler is in place to help bring the temps back down. I've done some thermodynamics math with a lot of assumed values and raising the intake temp from 70F to 75F only decreases the mass airflow by approximately 0.75 lb/min. Not a whole lot and I would probably never notice real world. You are probably correct that just the larger element would make up this difference... But if I can have more air AND colder air AND a lower pressure drop from a new intake setup...
I like performance and efficiency but don't like compromise.
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2011 F-250 XLT CC SB 4x4 6.7L Powerstroke
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Truxedo tonneau cover, Linex bed liner, Blue Ox turnover ball, Weathertech floor mats, Carhartt seat covers, S&B Open Air Intake w/ prefilter
  #13  
Old 03-01-2020, 01:24 PM
erbear28 erbear28 is offline
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Originally Posted by 6.7Bison View Post
Glad to hear some of you can back up my hypothesis! This gives me hope I won't have to do any further modifications to get more cool air to the intake. For my own purposes and to keep this write up and review complete I will still gather data after the install and post my findings.





Thanks! Sounds like I'm on the right track to being informative and unbiased.





You are correct the turbo heats up the air a ton and the intercooler is in place to help bring the temps back down. I've done some thermodynamics math with a lot of assumed values and raising the intake temp from 70F to 75F only decreases the mass airflow by approximately 0.75 lb/min. Not a whole lot and I would probably never notice real world. You are probably correct that just the larger element would make up this difference... But if I can have more air AND colder air AND a lower pressure drop from a new intake setup...

I like performance and efficiency but don't like compromise.


Steve Carter who runs absolute performance has done some similar testing

“For example, the Absolute Performance intake shows a 2-7* delta of intake temp vs ambient air temp. Similar to the stock 3-5* delta. Both intake systems drawing air from the factory location. Those delta numbers alone dismantle the "hot air intake" comments but let's take it one step further...

Underhood air temp issues in these trucks at 40,50,60,70+mph are almost non existent. The engineers at ford have mastered under hood airflow beings that the front stack in the core sees a massive amount of air across its surface area, moving into the engine bay and down out under the truck. Keeping a large portion of the area near the major heat emitting components covered with cooler ambient air which eliminates the hot air pockets most have come to expect to be under the hood. Speaking of heat emitting components, thankfully the 6.7 motor design has all the exhaust components in the valley of the engine, and the intake on the outboard side. Even further eliminating heat soak issues or potential. Throw in the fact that the air filter on the Absolute intake is surrounded by the battery box, front core and fender, or on the 2017+ trucks - surrounded by the egr cooler and battery tray, you really just don't have the "hot air intake" effect some people uneducatedly claim to exist.

Now let's get down to why even if it was a "hot air intake" it wouldn't matter....

This particular motor is setup with a inline air to water intercooler which is tasked with cooling the air charge to the motor post turbo. Now most people don't know or at least aren't thinking of the turbo as a air compressor and the physics of compressing particles like oxygen at a high rate of speed, what occurs. The biggest being heat. The 6.7 turbocharger absolutely can and will create charge air temps (post air intake system) that are 5x higher than ambient air temps. Meaning on a 75* day, I have seen Air Intake temps as high as 400* at WOT. Cruising speeds the turbo usually creates 2-3x higher air charge temps than ambient. The air intake system albeit stock or aftermarket only affects that number by single digits in my testing. Which doesn't really mean much, and wouldn't mean much even if the temp was 10-15-20* higher because that wonderful little inline intercooler is in place to bring those temps down and make them optimal again.

So what's the point of an Absolute Performance Air Intake system? VOLUME. Cramming as much air into the turbocharger as humanly possible. Obviously the more available air to the turbo there is, the more efficient that turbo will be in the essence there isn't a restriction on the inlet side making the charger work harder to do its intended job. How does this relate to you in terms of performance? Horsepower and more notably, throttle response. Crisp and clean off the line, every time

So... take it from a guy that's spent the months testing these systems and products with data logging equipment in a variety of setups, scenarios and locations - there is no such thing as a "hot air intake" on a 6.7 Powerstroke”
  #14  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:23 PM
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@erbear28: Did you see 400* F post-CAC on WOT runs??? Or was that pre-CAC temps?



I've never seen higher than 20-25* F over ambient post-CAC for any driving condition.

On a good day cruising around the post-CAC numbers could be as low as 15*F over ambient. Don't expect that all the time.



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But if I can have more air AND colder air AND a lower pressure drop from a new intake setup..

Which is only relative to the performance of the CAC. As long as it's doing it's job you will never see anything below ambient air going into the motor.



Keeping the conversation to just the intake system up to the compressor housing, when driving around my No Limit Stage 2 will pull temps at ambient or 2*F less than ambient.
  #15  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:17 AM
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Great discussion here guys!

Quote:
Steve Carter who runs absolute performance has done some similar testing
Quote:
So... take it from a guy that's spent the months testing these systems and products with data logging equipment in a variety of setups, scenarios and locations - there is no such thing as a "hot air intake" on a 6.7 Powerstroke”
Quote:
Keeping the conversation to just the intake system up to the compressor housing, when driving around my No Limit Stage 2 will pull temps at ambient or 2*F less than ambient.
I hadn't seen his testing but again good to know my hypothesis of ambient like underhood temperatures seems to be confirmed by others. I'm just going through the paces to make sure my upgrade is indeed an upgrade in all the areas I want it to be.

Quote:
This particular motor is setup with a inline air to water intercooler which is tasked with cooling the air charge to the motor post turbo. Now most people don't know or at least aren't thinking of the turbo as a air compressor and the physics of compressing particles like oxygen at a high rate of speed, what occurs. The biggest being heat. The 6.7 turbocharger absolutely can and will create charge air temps (post air intake system) that are 5x higher than ambient air temps. Meaning on a 75* day, I have seen Air Intake temps as high as 400* at WOT. Cruising speeds the turbo usually creates 2-3x higher air charge temps than ambient. The air intake system albeit stock or aftermarket only affects that number by single digits in my testing. Which doesn't really mean much, and wouldn't mean much even if the temp was 10-15-20* higher because that wonderful little inline intercooler is in place to bring those temps down and make them optimal again.
I agree with you here and can dive into the math to support it. My only counter point is that the intercooler isn't perfect. While it takes out a lot of heat from the air it will never take all of it out. In fact the higher the temperature in the higher the temperature out. The turbo has the same effect. So in theory in order to have the highest density possible for any setup you want to keep out as much additional heat as possible from start to finish. In the real world the lost density of a 20 degree difference in ambient to intake temperature may not be a whole lot different at the cylinder and may not even be noticeable to the average person. Especially if you increase volume and decrease pressure drop at the same time. But sometimes I live in my own world...

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How does this relate to you in terms of performance? Horsepower and more notably, throttle response. Crisp and clean off the line, every time
That's what I'm looking for!

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Which is only relative to the performance of the CAC. As long as it's doing it's job you will never see anything below ambient air going into the motor.
I've heard of a few tricks drag racers use to get manifold air temperature below ambient but they aren't exactly feasible for a daily driver...

Circling back to the main thread topic, I did get the intake installed yesterday. Just need to organize my thoughts, data, and pictures.
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Truxedo tonneau cover, Linex bed liner, Blue Ox turnover ball, Weathertech floor mats, Carhartt seat covers, S&B Open Air Intake w/ prefilter
  #16  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:18 AM
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Not sure what you are trying to gain now with all this effort. If you are only concerned about airflow to the turbo compressor housing I might have a better understanding of your efforts here. Are you just doing all this to prove to yourself what you already know to be true??
  #17  
Old 03-02-2020, 10:30 AM
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Wow what a waste of time, effort and money
  #18  
Old 03-02-2020, 06:16 PM
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I'm checking the manufacturers claims against what I can determine with real world data and sharing my findings. The open air intake from S&B is relatively new and there wasn't anything out there on it. Cant say I know anything about it except what the manufacturer claims.
For my purposes I am wanting to improve fuel economy, protect the engine from ingesting dirt and dust, and not have to buy another filter for as long as I have the truck. I would like more power, throttle response, and not hinder future modifications but that isn't necessarily a requirement. Can't say it's really all that much effort or time. It's been more effort and time sharing my findings here than any other part of this. As for money, the intake pays for itself being able to wash and reuse the filter alone.
If it is the consensus I am wasting my time and effort, and there is no interest in what I am doing, I can simply stop sharing my findings and experience.
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2011 F-250 XLT CC SB 4x4 6.7L Powerstroke
~109,000 miles
Truxedo tonneau cover, Linex bed liner, Blue Ox turnover ball, Weathertech floor mats, Carhartt seat covers, S&B Open Air Intake w/ prefilter
  #19  
Old 03-02-2020, 06:54 PM
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Default Scientific Intake Selection and Review

NAPA 6637 filter with a washable filter sock has been proven to flow enough to make big power in 7.3s for years. And it’s like 50 bucks for the filter and the cover. I’d imagine there would be enough room in a 6.7 to put that filter in also.
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Last edited by dsberman94; 03-02-2020 at 07:01 PM.
  #20  
Old 03-03-2020, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
For my purposes I am wanting to improve fuel economy, protect the engine from ingesting dirt and dust, and not have to buy another filter for as long as I have the truck. I would like more power, throttle response, and not hinder future modifications but that isn't necessarily a requirement.

You should have bought a No Limit filter and system. I've run the same one for over 100k.


More "power" from an intake alone isn't going to happen.


By all means, post your experiences and findings. If you discover it works for you then so be it. If you discover it was a waste of money then so be it. You will either discover what many already know, or show a different result.


Just remember you are only changing a small portion of the airflow path.
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