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Old 08-21-2014, 01:29 PM
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Default Another PMR hp question

So I've been looking for some newer threads regarding safe Hp for a 7.3 with PMR's, I can't find any recent ones so I figured i'd ask. What seems to be the best PMR setup lately? Ideally I want to build mine with 238/100 injectors, srp1 hpop and g38r turbo and land right around 450 hp, can this be tuned safely? I'd be having beans tune it when the time comes, is this really pushing it for a PMR? Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:33 PM
HVFC6040 HVFC6040 is offline
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How much faith do you have in your tuner?
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:42 PM
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Beans is pretty good with PMR safe tunes from what i've heard, I know it mainly comes down to tuning, if someone has had sucess with a similiar setup then i'd love to know who tuned it.
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96 7.3, Adrenaline HPOP, Irate fuel system w/ Walbro GSL392 fuel pump, stock injectors, PHP tunes (working on supporting mods for 250/200 injectors still)
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:47 PM
HVFC6040 HVFC6040 is offline
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At the end of the day, you still have pmr's no matter who tunes it....
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Old 08-21-2014, 04:17 PM
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238/100s should put you in the 500+ hp range, Jonathon (currently Dyno-proven who wrote and am asumming beans still sells his tunes) got 490 something HP just out of 175/80s
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:53 PM
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I've already been down this road. I'm personally going with 180/100's and that's my limit because of liability. And I could be pushing it with those injectors. I have all the supporting mods to run them. My truck has pmr's but it really doesn't matter cause forged can go through the block just as well. 450 hp is a lot of horsepower in my book but a concern would be your transmission. At 450 hp, your transmission probably won't hold. So if you want that horsepower you better be looking for a more beefy converter and tranny. My opinion are pis 175/80, fullforce 160/100 or powerstrucks 180/100 and you'll have all the horsepower you will ever need. Good luck!
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Last edited by dadada; 08-22-2014 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadada View Post
I've already been down this road. I'm personally going with 180/100's and that's my limit because of liability. And I could be pushing it with those injectors. I have all the supporting mods to run them. My truck has pmr's but it really doesn't matter cause forged can go through the block just as well. 450 hp is a lot of horsepower in my book but a concern would be your transmission. At 450 hp, your transmission probably won't hold. So if you want that horsepower you better be looking for a more beefy converter and tranny. My opinion are pis 175/80, fullforce 160/100 or powerstrucks 180/100 and you'll have all the horsepower you will ever need. Good luck!
It does matter actually. Forged rods are much stronger than pmr.
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Old 08-22-2014, 08:13 PM
CurtisF CurtisF is offline
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It doesn't matter what injector. You can run 400/400's on PMR's. Never mind the max hp that an injector is capable of. Everyone just get that out of your collective heads and throw it out the window when it comes to PMR tuning. The idea of "this particular injector is capable of X amount of horsepower". Toss it away.

What matters is how much fuel at what time and duration. That will be mainly up to your tuner, and partly what you want him to do. The injectors you choose will determine what your tuner has to work with. After that it's supporting mods being able to make the power time and time again with good performance and manageable EGT's.

First, stop looking at horsepower. Look at torque and set a limit. For PMR's, make it under 900 lb/ft if you want it to live as long as possible. Go higher and good luck, you're going to need it.

Why torque? Because that's your best indication of cylinder pressure without having an actual tool to measure the cylinder pressure in real time. High cylinder pressure is what is going to pop a rod, and PMR's just love to jump out of the block when cylinder pressures spike. You can have 400 hp and 1200 lb/ft of torque, or you can have 500 hp and 900 lb/ft of torque. Which one has the higher cylinder pressure? I bet you can guess at this point.

As for the injectors, larger nozzles will give you more horsepower with less torque, because they have a smaller injection window that they can work with and you can continue to make good power at higher RPM's while keeping EGT's nice and low. But at the same time they are harder to tune for many, and require some refinements to achieve a nice daily driver that you are truly happy with. On the flip side smaller nozzles are easier to work with in regards to making your truck a pleasant daily driver, but require a much longer injection event duration. This longer injection event can increase EGT's and limits your upper RPM power as that injection window shrinks.

Pick a tuner you are comfortable with and talk to him about your goals and what components you plan to toss under the hood. The two of you will be working close together until that truck is running as you want it, so both of you better be speaking the same language before you open your wallet.

Is this going to push the limits of the PMR's. Uhhhhhhhhh, yeah. Of course. You're going to gamble, just know that here and now. Understand what can possibly happen, prepare yourself for it, and don't be surprised if it happens.

For my own truck I've been very happy with it. The thing is a work beast and nothing out tows it up a mountain pass. Period. It's been alive in it's current configuration and power level for several years and tons of miles, and it hasn't skipped a beat. Knock on wood it keeps this up for many many years to come.

*Your experience may differ.
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2020, 01:16 PM
a11m1ghty a11m1ghty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisF View Post
It doesn't matter what injector. You can run 400/400's on PMR's. Never mind the max hp that an injector is capable of. Everyone just get that out of your collective heads and throw it out the window when it comes to PMR tuning. The idea of "this particular injector is capable of X amount of horsepower". Toss it away.

What matters is how much fuel at what time and duration. That will be mainly up to your tuner, and partly what you want him to do. The injectors you choose will determine what your tuner has to work with. After that it's supporting mods being able to make the power time and time again with good performance and manageable EGT's.

First, stop looking at horsepower. Look at torque and set a limit. For PMR's, make it under 900 lb/ft if you want it to live as long as possible. Go higher and good luck, you're going to need it.

Why torque? Because that's your best indication of cylinder pressure without having an actual tool to measure the cylinder pressure in real time. High cylinder pressure is what is going to pop a rod, and PMR's just love to jump out of the block when cylinder pressures spike. You can have 400 hp and 1200 lb/ft of torque, or you can have 500 hp and 900 lb/ft of torque. Which one has the higher cylinder pressure? I bet you can guess at this point.

As for the injectors, larger nozzles will give you more horsepower with less torque, because they have a smaller injection window that they can work with and you can continue to make good power at higher RPM's while keeping EGT's nice and low. But at the same time they are harder to tune for many, and require some refinements to achieve a nice daily driver that you are truly happy with. On the flip side smaller nozzles are easier to work with in regards to making your truck a pleasant daily driver, but require a much longer injection event duration. This longer injection event can increase EGT's and limits your upper RPM power as that injection window shrinks.

Pick a tuner you are comfortable with and talk to him about your goals and what components you plan to toss under the hood. The two of you will be working close together until that truck is running as you want it, so both of you better be speaking the same language before you open your wallet.

Is this going to push the limits of the PMR's. Uhhhhhhhhh, yeah. Of course. You're going to gamble, just know that here and now. Understand what can possibly happen, prepare yourself for it, and don't be surprised if it happens.

For my own truck I've been very happy with it. The thing is a work beast and nothing out tows it up a mountain pass. Period. It's been alive in it's current configuration and power level for several years and tons of miles, and it hasn't skipped a beat. Knock on wood it keeps this up for many many years to come.

*Your experience may differ.
Old thread, but need direction.

I just found out yesterday after confidently "knowing" that my 05/01 build date was going to net my 01' Excursion Forged rods. Well yesterday, I was sadly mistaken as I viewed through that "portal of truth" port next to the oil filter.

There went my dreams of 1000+ ft lbs of torque, lol.

With that being said, what mods to your 7.3 have netted you under that safe realm for ff TQ for your PMR's (Your HP/TQ #'s in your sig sound great!)?

Thanks!

Unbeknownst member of the PMR club
-L
  #10  
Old 05-03-2020, 11:50 AM
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lincolnlocker lincolnlocker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a11m1ghty View Post
Old thread, but need direction.



I just found out yesterday after confidently "knowing" that my 05/01 build date was going to net my 01' Excursion Forged rods. Well yesterday, I was sadly mistaken as I viewed through that "portal of truth" port next to the oil filter.



There went my dreams of 1000+ ft lbs of torque, lol.



With that being said, what mods to your 7.3 have netted you under that safe realm for ff TQ for your PMR's (Your HP/TQ #'s in your sig sound great!)?



Thanks!



Unbeknownst member of the PMR club

-L
You can still have those dreams. It just taked good tuning to get it there.

live life full throttle
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