230/30 Hybrids with performance HPOP?

JCart

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Did a search and realize I’m like 10 years (ok well beyond that), behind the crowd. Anyway, I understand the notion of Hybrids not requiring more than stock oil, sort of. Is there benefit if any, in running a performance say T500 with them? I did a search lots came up about various HPOPs but nothing on combining Hybrids and larger oil. Any actual data and/or benefits.
Thanks,
j
 
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Zeb

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I don’t have dyno sheets to prove this one way or the other, but here are my thoughts/observations on it.

A 205 hybrid has less intensifier stroke than a stock AB injector. So as far as volume is concerned a stock 15* hpop will run them quite well. If you were to install a stock 17* pump I doubt you would see much, if any, gain.
If you were to install a T500, Adrenaline, CNC Fab Stage 2, etc, I would expect to see a power gain because those pumps can supply more pressure than a stock pump. Even tho you don’t really need the volume that those pumps can supply, the increased ICP will affect fuel density (or fuel in xxx amount of time) which will increase power.
 

lincolnlocker

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In other words, a stock hpop will run them but will be taped out on max effort... any of the other aftermarket hpop's that flow more than stock, will just loaf along and run what is commanded.

live life full throttle
 

Zeb

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In other words, a stock hpop will run them but will be taped out on max effort... any of the other aftermarket hpop's that flow more than stock, will just loaf along and run what is commanded.

live life full throttle

A stock pump typically is tapped out at about 2,800 psi from what I’ve seen, and most of the pumps mentioned will run up to 3,200+psi.
That additional pressure is where the power increase comes from on a small hybrid like this, not the additional cc’s of oil volume that the pump is capable of.
On an injector that is big enough that the pump cannot maintain ICP, the additional volume (and pressure) makes the difference.
 

JCart

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Thanks for info to chew on fellas. When comparing a stock 15 degree pumps pressure output say between off idle and say 2600 RPM to an aftermarket pump like a T500 would be interesting to see a pressure table/graph duty/cycle comparison. Thinking to map with A/E would look the same though right? Or perhaps duty cycle for the T500 would be less, due to great volume output? I understand that a T500 has greater pressure max, as noted above, but wouldn’t this also impact Duty cycle causing pressure to ramp up quicker than a stock pump? The pressure increase is caused by more volume output of T500, as pressure is a measure of restriction no?

Guess what I’m getting at is there a tangible felt benefit to running (in my instance) a T500 as I have one on the shelf just back from Joey. I could see where possibly throttle feel would be crisper and possibly better fuel economy via better atomization?
j
 

superpsd

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If your current hpop keeps up with ICP desired that is asked for in the tune then you will not see a difference in performance. If it is not keeping up then yes a larger displacement pump is needed to increase volume. A larger pump will be able to ramp up correctly. If you can data log ICP or just watch ICP and do somw WOT pulls and see how quickly pressure comes up and if it is holding ICP. As for pressure all pumps are capble of high pressure, it is only when the volume required is higher than the pump is capable of that pressure drops off.
 
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mandkole

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My stock 17 can deliver enough volume to the 250/100s to create 3k+ at PW below 4ms. The longer, drag file will drop to 2900 or so but I don’t use the it on the street as it’s got a fair amount of tip in smoke off boost.
 

lincolnlocker

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My stock 17 can deliver enough volume to the 250/100s to create 3k+ at PW below 4ms. The longer, drag file will drop to 2900 or so but I don’t use the it on the street as it’s got a fair amount of tip in smoke off boost.
A better pump would wake that ole girl up on the drag file then.

live life full throttle
 

mandkole

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A better pump would wake that ole girl up on the drag file then.

live life full throttle

Haha, it certainly wouldn’t hurt.. it hasn’t had the VCs off in almost 10 years since Casserly last freshened the injs. I’ve often thought that the orings need to be looked at, but pressure has stayed consistent. It’s used on the tow file 3/4 of the time and the pump works real good there. One of these days I’ll take the top apart again and give it all a once over. It’s such an awesome truck , I could sell it every time I take it to the lumberyard!
 

JCart

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Haha, it certainly wouldn’t hurt.. it hasn’t had the VCs off in almost 10 years since Casserly last freshened the injs. I’ve often thought that the orings need to be looked at, but pressure has stayed consistent. It’s used on the tow file 3/4 of the time and the pump works real good there. One of these days I’ll take the top apart again and give it all a once over. It’s such an awesome truck , I could sell it every time I take it to the lumberyard!

That’s wicked service life on aftermarket products. Interesting what files “feel” appropriate for a given vehicle. Brian from Jelibult sent me up a number of files to try. They are all very smooth, linear, excellent peddle feel. So far have used the Daily driver and mileage tunes the most. Mileage file shows no smoke at all and so far feels right. Clearly I’m conservative..., performance street tune feels quick (relative to stock). Had over a ton of weight on the other day and my Son was buggin me as he’s not ridden in it since “improvements”. WOT was pretty Smokey, was under the turbo a bit and was in town traffic, once up in RPM... whoooa pretty zippy.... hardest I’ve ran it so far. Sooo much more fun to drive now in any tune compared to stock.... almost feel dirty knowing that Greta, (Swedish whatshername Punk), wouldn’t approve....phphphfff NOT.... I blow smoke in your general direction FFS, cause I choooooose to. Hahahaa. Actually files surprisingly show very little smoke if drive appropriately, ok aside from the street performance with over a ton in the back...heh heh.
Thanks for ongoing support fellas.
j
 
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mandkole

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That’s wicked service life on aftermarket products. Interesting what files “feel” appropriate for a given vehicle. Brian from Jelibult sent me up a number of files to try. They are all very smooth, linear, excellent peddle feel. So far have used the Daily driver and mileage tunes the most. Mileage file shows no smoke at all and so far feels right. Clearly I’m conservative..., performance street tune feels quick (relative to stock). Had over a ton of weight on the other day and my Son was buggin me as he’s not ridden in it since “improvements”. WOT was pretty Smokey, was under the turbo a bit and was in town traffic, once up in RPM... whoooa pretty zippy.... hardest I’ve ran it so far. Sooo much more fun to drive now in any tune compared to stock.... almost feel dirty knowing that Greta, (Swedish whatshername Punk), wouldn’t approve....phphphfff NOT.... I blow smoke in your general direction FFS, cause I choooooose to. Hahahaa. Actually files surprisingly show very little smoke if drive appropriately, ok aside from the street performance with over a ton in the back...heh heh.
Thanks for ongoing support fellas.
j

Sounds like it’s working good, enjoy!
 

JCart

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J, I’d put the T500 on there just because of the possible ramp up improvement. With a five speed it matters more.

Was thinking that too however also have some 175/80s that FFD have just gone through and they are as new rebuilds from 4-5 years ago that have like 300 miles on them, Fellas at FFD said they were in good shape now. Was thinking I may drop these in a ECSB D60, with ZF-5 and probably could use T500 more, with these jectors? Would basically be for tooling about with.
j
 

mandkole

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J,
If you don’t have an aeroforce scan gauge, I’d get one.. most useful mod on my truck and wouldn’t have another 7.3 without it. I don’t worry about absolute numbers, but I’ll see change quickly.
 

JCart

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J,
If you don’t have an aeroforce scan gauge, I’d get one.. most useful mod on my truck and wouldn’t have another 7.3 without it. I don’t worry about absolute numbers, but I’ll see change quickly.

Good point and have seen guys run them over the years. Was thinking as I have AutoEnginuity, not so sure I need scangauge? Thing is I’ll be getting my ECSB D60 ZF 5 back from my Son here shortly as he is buying a new 6.7 (blasphemy I know) and it is in need of attention so.... dough as usual is a thing.
Great suggestions Fellas thanks.
 

mandkole

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Do you have AE plugged in the truck all the time? If so, you don’t need scan gauge haha. But, the utility of constant information in a 2 5/8” gauge at a glance, codes and even quick buzz test , is helpful to me.
 

JCart

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Do you have AE plugged in the truck all the time? If so, you don’t need scan gauge haha. But, the utility of constant information in a 2 5/8” gauge at a glance, codes and even quick buzz test , is helpful to me.

Good point.... nope and it is flakey too. I’ll check into one, thing in Canada my cost on a lot of truck stuff is 40% over lower 48 cost so sometime cost outweighs benefit.

Thanks for suggestion though.
j
 

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