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Old 02-28-2020, 10:32 AM
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KPSquared KPSquared is offline
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Default s362 vs KC drop in

I've seen the discussion multiple times on here but the sticks and tunes always vary so it leaves me wondering.

I'm going to make the choice soon. My truck is just a driver. Pulls 12k all summer and does the occasional burnout. Planning a turbo and possibly fuel upgrade.

Will the s362sxe spool just as fast off the bottom or while cruising/pulling as a KC Stage 1.5 (or whatever you think is best)? Price is going to come out pretty much the same.

Looking at either 155/30 or 175/30 and more turbo. I've read enough times that the non-vgt will move more air at higher revs, but what about just basic stop and go driving and cruising on the highway?

I'm running 35's and 4.10 gears. I'm running Gaerhead tunes right now and a 40hp Innoavitve FICM tune.

What's your preferred combo and why?

Thoughts, opinions, advice? (with data or experience preferred.)
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Last edited by KPSquared; 02-28-2020 at 10:37 AM.
  #2  
Old 02-28-2020, 02:31 PM
Zeb Zeb is offline
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Let me state right off the bat that I like properly sized non-vgt’s.

I have run anything from stock injectors up to 190/30’s with an SXE 362/68/.83 turbo.
Probably a dozen trucks with that size turbo.

Right off the line you will notice virtually no difference in spoolup between the 362 or similarly sized vgt. Where you will see the difference is at low rpm in a higher gear with the converter locked. Good tuning can/will nearly eliminate the vgt advantage in this scenario.

I have nearly 50,000 miles of experience on a single truck with the specs as follows.
2005 F450, 4.30 gears, 245/75/19.5’s (33.5-34” tall), 175/stock injectors, SXE 362/68/.83 on an Irate T-4.
This truck tows on a daily basis, rarely grossing less than 30,000 lbs gross, and often as high as 46,000 lbs gross.
After running a stock 05 turbo, an 03 turbo with a Wicked Wheel 2 in it, and constantly fighting egt on a hard pull, I swapped to the 362.
I was actually able to ADD pulsewidth to the tow file and no longer fight egt.

I have an SXE 63/68/.83 on my Excursion with 225/30’s (along with many other mods) and it never comes off the tune that dyno’s nearly 600 rwhp, not even towing 15,000-17,500 lbs gross between here in Ky and Albuquerque NM.

I’ve run multiple non-vgt’s over the 8 years, and a few larger vgt’s, and definitely prefer non-vgt.
  #3  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:33 PM
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I have never personally driven a non vgt 6.0, but have driven damn near all the KC turbos. Some with stock injectors, a lot with larger.

Put a stage 1 10 blade on my buddys truck with stock injectors, he is happy as hell. Hes running idp tunes, 3.73s with 31s I think, reverse leveled on nitto 420s.

Driven mine with a stage 2 and 190/30s, personally best setup I had, plenty quick to spool, tons of top end, did eventually fall off around 120 mph or so, but did 600 horse, and ran co sistsnt mid 12s.

Mine with 190/30s and a stage 3 was ok. Never really fell off on the top, but I did notice slower spool up, not a ton, but noticeable. Also very hard to keep egts in check towing about 15k. Had to pay very close attention, and was constantly poking my tow haul switch to take it out of overdrive.

My truck has 35s and 3.73s.

I personally love the quick spool of a vgt and the ease of replacement. Thats why I'm still running one in my compound setup. If youre planning on 175/30s, go with a stage 2, it will clean them up better. But also my opinion is step up to 190s if you go with the 175s, as they'll drive the same until youre in a race tune due to the nozzles being the same size, but you'll have the extra on top in the race tune for a little extra oomph. Plus no one typically wishes they had less power...

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  #4  
Old 03-01-2020, 11:37 AM
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darianmacdonald darianmacdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
Let me state right off the bat that I like properly sized non-vgtís.

I have run anything from stock injectors up to 190/30ís with an SXE 362/68/.83 turbo.
Probably a dozen trucks with that size turbo.

Right off the line you will notice virtually no difference in spoolup between the 362 or similarly sized vgt. Where you will see the difference is at low rpm in a higher gear with the converter locked. Good tuning can/will nearly eliminate the vgt advantage in this scenario.

I have nearly 50,000 miles of experience on a single truck with the specs as follows.
2005 F450, 4.30 gears, 245/75/19.5ís (33.5-34Ē tall), 175/stock injectors, SXE 362/68/.83 on an Irate T-4.
This truck tows on a daily basis, rarely grossing less than 30,000 lbs gross, and often as high as 46,000 lbs gross.
After running a stock 05 turbo, an 03 turbo with a Wicked Wheel 2 in it, and constantly fighting egt on a hard pull, I swapped to the 362.
I was actually able to ADD pulsewidth to the tow file and no longer fight egt.

I have an SXE 63/68/.83 on my Excursion with 225/30ís (along with many other mods) and it never comes off the tune that dynoís nearly 600 rwhp, not even towing 15,000-17,500 lbs gross between here in Ky and Albuquerque NM.

Iíve run multiple non-vgtís over the 8 years, and a few larger vgtís, and definitely prefer non-vgt.


What Zeb said is bang on. I myself run a SXE 362/68/.83 w/ Irates T4 kit, and I have stock injectors. I noticed zero difference in spool coming from a Powermax and I now never have to worry about EGTs. But like Zeb said as well, the only thing I would view as a downfall is that there is a bit of a dead spot when youíre locked in at low RPMs. So it can get a bit toasty when youíre stuck in that spot cruising while pulling a load. But it is also very manageable, I had GH program my Tow/Haul button to lock out O/D and thatís completely alleviated any issues, being able to lock out O/D when ever you want.

On another note I never even switch out of my SRL file now, never have to worry about EGTs. Towing up to 10k has not been an issue at all. I used to have to leave the truck in the 8K Tow file when I had the Powermax, and even then it would still get a little hot pulling decent grades with a decent load.


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  #5  
Old 03-20-2020, 08:07 AM
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jeremiahmercier jeremiahmercier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darianmacdonald View Post
What Zeb said is bang on. I myself run a SXE 362/68/.83 w/ Irates T4 kit, and I have stock injectors. I noticed zero difference in spool coming from a Powermax and I now never have to worry about EGTs. But like Zeb said as well, the only thing I would view as a downfall is that there is a bit of a dead spot when youíre locked in at low RPMs. So it can get a bit toasty when youíre stuck in that spot cruising while pulling a load. But it is also very manageable, I had GH program my Tow/Haul button to lock out O/D and thatís completely alleviated any issues, being able to lock out O/D when ever you want.

On another note I never even switch out of my SRL file now, never have to worry about EGTs. Towing up to 10k has not been an issue at all. I used to have to leave the truck in the 8K Tow file when I had the Powermax, and even then it would still get a little hot pulling decent grades with a decent load.


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That's interesting, I've got GH tunes, stock sticks and powermax, also have 35s w/ 3.73, I tow our 40ft fifth wheel (around 13k) up into TN and NC all the time, in his 13k tow tune, and dont really have any egt issues...

I'm currently in the crowd that will need new injectors soon too, and debating on 155/30s - 190/30s, and what turbo to run

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06-6.0l, CCLB 4X4, studded, reworked heads, egr gone, cab reroute, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, updated dummy plugs, stand pipe, and stc fitting; New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, powermax turbo, and Geerhead tunes, 325/65R18

2002 F250 4x4 ECLB auto w/ 3.73s. Air heater gone/ CAI / 4" dp to 4" exh. / zippo mod / Dp-Tuner live tuned / egt, boost & trans. guage
  #6  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:51 PM
KCTurbos KCTurbos is offline
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It depends on the customer and a few other things. I have had customer get a non-vgt setup and HATE IT. Tried tune revisions, changed turbos sizes, etc... ended up going back to vgt. But I also have tons of customers that have gone non-vgt and love it, best thing they have ever done.

Some big factors that come into play. Tires size, gear ratio, altitude, how heavy you tow, and what your expectations are for "spool up"

The powermax is a laggy turd... comparing that to non-vgt will make non-vgt look good.
Running a KC s1 vs a non-vgt is going to make the non-vgt feel pretty laggy. Especially when locked in OD at lower rpms.

Me personally... I have ran them all... can't stand non-vgt on a 6.0 (not so bad on a 6.7). I have tried all the tuning, all the injectors, all the turbos, etc. HATE the extra lag.
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