Common Rail Injectors for the 6.4L And the NEW Extrude Hone.

BogginF350

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Some of you may know me already but if you do not I want to introduce myself. My name is Josh Davis. I am the owner of River City Diesel, River City Machine and Midwest Truck and 4wd center.

I started building the 6.0L and 7.3L injector in 2005 and have been perfecting the process since. There have been a lot of newer names pop up over the recent years and ultimately they all make a great product. We have built well over 10,000 HEUI injectors, actually approaching 20k units and have also started modifying and testing the Common Rail Solenoid and Piezo injectors in house.

I would like to go over a few aspects of increasing nozzle size and balancing. We have been real world testing these units for some time now. Flow bench, nozzle flow bench, Dyno testing and road tests. This includes cold temp and warm/hot ambient tests.

Many people associate all performance injectors the same. And a 30% injector is the same as any other 30% right? Well.. this isnt exactly true. Most consider the extrude hone process as a cheap alternative to a EDM`d unit. And most ultimately considered utilizing EDM methods with a Extrude Hone Process to produce the best product. Which this works, but is very costly.

The older machines used to hone nozzles utilized a Silly Putty consistency "abrasive dough" of sorts that was pressed though the nozzle to "hone" the nozzle orifices to a larger size. This flow increase was monitored by the amount of time that the "Putty" was pushed though the nozzle. This worked well for low increases into the 30-45% range but was very inconsistent and also did not keep the nozzle orifices balanced. (one hole would be larger than the other) This would cause hot spots on pistons and melted bowl lips. Minor characteristics were odd power balance issues and rough, smokey cold starts. We typically see 30% injector sets that use this process varying from 20-40% when testing the nozzle.

These older Vector machines have been used for over 15 years and worked well for their purpose. Knocking EDM spatter from inside the nozzle and slight contouring of the orifice.

Lets fast forward to 2015. Caterpillar, Cummins Etc are now under stringent testing standards to produce lets say, perfection during the combustion event. This requires an absolute symmetrical nozzle and precision balancing from one nozzle to the next. Without this they would never pass NOX standards and Particulate emissions increase causing more regen cycles.

Cat and Cummins use the Microflow process in house for nozzle sizing and dyno testing. I had the privilege of visiting the Cat facility prior to my purchase of our equipment. They rely on these machines to balance nozzle flow to be able to pass their Tier4 emission standards. It also allows them to properly size the nozzle for peak hp and torque with minimum smoke for pre-production testing. this excited me having the ability to essentially make any size nozzle needed and being able to utilize our common rail system to be able to know exactly what said injector flows at said Pulse width & Pressure.

For the last year we have been perfecting this process with great results. I am currently running 6.4L 150% injectors in my personal truck with minimal smoke and huge delivery with a low duration. My personal truck netted over 150 additional RWHP under 3,000 RPM VS a older set of aftermarket 100% nozzles. The truck really shined this fall in the few truck pulls I competed in. Ran well enough that they wanted to test my fuel because they believed I was blending Nitromethane into my diesel. LOL

Another thing I elaborated on in a previous post is the Piezo stack height / Nozzle nut torque. I have seen up to a 45CC variance @ 27Kpsi /2.3MS on new units with 100% nozzles. In my opinion 45cc is huge. In layman's terms that is nearly 50% of max delivery on a stock 6.0 engine, which that 45cc nets 170hp worth of fuel..

That cylinder is going to run extremely hot compared to the rest at WOT. This is most likely why people are seeing random melted pistons. One injector flows 315CC and the next flows 360CC. That week I did three sets with 60% nozzles and they varied from 285cc to 300CC. It seems to multiply based on the % of overflow. And this is using new nozzles that are balanced within one tenth of 1%. Also, it is good to trim the delivery on idle and mid range by changing the stack height of the Piezo. This nets a much smother idle. Most trucks with just nozzle swaps have a lopey idle and smoke white cold and turns black at operating temp.

We have found for ultimate performance and reliability on the 6.4L to use new injectors as the piezo gets weak and will not work properly until the unit warms up to 140+ Fahrenheit. This is caused by the Piezo crystal not expanding enough during the charge to fire the injector. At this point the injector is essentially "tired" and needs replaced. No nozzle, re-stack or balance work will fix this. AP had an issue with this. They could re-stack it and it would work but would soon lose idle delivery and would have a misfire.

Fortunately for us Pure Power is selling new units with genuine nozzles. We currently disassemble these, and modify them with very good results. Our in house microflow system allows us to hone, flow test and balance the nozzle at the same time. +/- 1% It is then removed from the hone, flushed and flow tested with calibration fluid to prove the hone/flow results. After this we bore scope the nozzle and then it its gets reinstalled in its original injector at the original break away torque spec. This is very important otherwise you will mismatch the nozzle pintle height to the control valve rod. This is what causes delivery variation and drive-ability issues. The unbalanced injector may "work" for say but it is far from right. This robs you of horsepower, fuel mileage and longevity.

This new machine we use to modify the OE nozzles can reproduce increases up to 300% while keeping the nozzles symmetrical and balanced. This is achieved by having multiple types of media. We have 5 different grades to produce each degree of increase based on nozzle orifice size, type and number of holes.

Ultimately you can swap nozzles and they may "work" but after knowing what I have learned the past year I would never recommend it. We are also seeing tired injectors having the same back-leak issue of a Bosch unit. This is common with the LB7 Duramax and 5.9L Cummins. This back-leak essentially robs your delivery of fuel and it is just recycled at a high temperature back into your low pressure fuel system. This is what causes a stock K16 truck to lose injection pressure, run hot and melt pistons when the mileage of the truck gets higher. The K16 is still delivering the same amount but the injectors are leaking off all the pressure and it cannot hold pressure at the nozzle/rail. Tuners have also turned off the P0088 codes for rail pressure so unless you are monitoring you will never know besides having the loss of power and excessive heat. The high back-leak is also caused by not torquing the injector correctly in a fixture. You can "twist" the body and ruin the injector. We see this a lot when people install their own nozzles and then have us test them.

With that being said.. Swap nozzles at your risk. If you want the best its going to cost a little more but at the end of the day its much cheaper than a engine. You would be better off to send in your good injectors, have them tested and modify your existing nozzles.

Hope this helps...

Below is a quick excerpt from the manufactures of the Microflow system.



Flow Tuning, Flow Measurement for Finely Tuned Orifices
August 1, 2015

Pictured is a comparison of Kennametal MICROFLOW versus hydro erosive grinding, according to the company.

"Fuel system manufacturers seeking the best fuel performance require flexible high-flow grinding and high-flow test capabilities to achieve finely tuned orifices in numerous design variations," said a Kennametal spokesperson. "To this end, Kennametal Precision Surface Solutions offers EXTRUDE HONE MF PROGRESS, the next generation of flow tuning and flow measurement featuring a flow targeting accuracy to +/-1% aimed at orifices 100-350 um in parts less than 30 mm in diameter and flow rates up to 5 L/min."

The addition of such advanced process options is designed to help ensure components meet stringent government regulations. "From CAFÉ in North America, EURO6 and expected EURO7 in Europe, and PRC standards in Asia - all focused on reducing CO2 emissions - EXTRUDE HONE MF PROGRESS provides a suitable next step in upgraded manufacturing and finishing," said the spokesperson.

According to the company, MICROFLOW is the real-time monitored flow of abrasive media through small passages, such as fuel-injector spray holes. It achieves specific, repeatable processing results, including edge radius, micro-hole size and surface finish.

"These changes to small-hole geometry improve part function and performance," said the spokesperson. "Media flows in one direction, similar to part operation. Increased flow is attributed to subtly changing the geometry of the opening entrance (opening exit usually is not affected)."

MICROFLOW processing involves pressure drop, flow rate, geometry and fluid properties; machine design and dynamics; workpiece characteristics; media properties and processing procedures. Exclusive range of standard and customized MICROFLOW media with specific properties are designed to perform a step beyond classical hydro erosive liquid.
 

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ncollins64

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Awesome data and results. As soon as I pull mine out I'll be sending them to you. Morgan installed 60% nozzels on them but I'll probably bump up to 100s atleast.
 

timj

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Very nice write up Josh. Makes me think some about my 100% nozzles I put on last year. ^^and that pic is a broken axles in dana 80 folks.
 

Rubenk

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Informative post, thanks for sharing!

Wish I could spring for a set of new balanced injectors with nozzles and all. Should make things just that much smoother right?
 

jcain

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So is a nozzle only job possible on 6.7s or is it a one piece unit or something?
 

timj

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He was referring to 6.4 injector nozzles in particular in this post, but I know for certain they are set up for 6.0, 6.4, 6.7
 

BogginF350

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We have been modifying them for nearly a year now with great results. 15-125% over. Crazy part is that 100% unit flows more than the 6.4L 200%.
 

BogginF350

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We use the same process in all of our injectors. The OE nozzle is leaps and bounds better than ANY aftermarket piece. The 300/200 6.0L conventional are a thing of beauty.
 

BogginF350

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Depends on when they were purchased. We have been doing this for a little over a year. All of our new AP 6.0L modified units also use this process. the AP is a good unit but they cannot get OE replacement parts so they are using aftermarket nozzles as other budget rebuilders. The Pure Power unit has all new OE parts.
 

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