bad idle when hot

Chrisf97305

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Let me start this by saying this. I have not had a chance to talk to either Mike at Farmers, its his injectors, or DP who's tunes I am running. So every one knows this is not a bash fest, I am just trying to figure what is going on with my truck.

The injectors are Farmers, Sure Flow, 250 100's.
Dieselsite Adrenaline HPOP

Every thing was working great untill 2 weeks ago at my first pull. The pull was about 5 miles away form my home so I drove to the pull in my pulling tune. Its the first time that that I used the tune. As most pulls you get there at 10am and you don't pull till 3pm. So I started the truck and set the truck to high idle, 1000rps and it sounded like it was missing. Just let it warm up and then pulled. At full throttle the truck ran great. Then I set the tune back to stock and drove home. Then I started to notic that the idle started to have a loop to it. Then I drove it around in my 100 hp setting and the loop got worse. It was so bad that the tack was bouncing and the tail gate was squeeking.
So Saturday I took it out and tryed to hot rod it around and same thing, just idling like crap. Then I turned in to the store to get something to drink and it was idling so bad that it almost died. I turned the tune back to stock and drove home.
Then today I removed the chip to see if the tune was the problem and still the same. Cold it idles good but once it gets up to temp then idle goes to crap. But if I put my foot in it, it runs like great. So here is a video of what I am talking about.
There is no error codes.
Idle is 600 rpm's
Engine temp was 182
fuel pressure is 60psi
engine oil pressure is 32psi
2500 rpm,s, 70 psi
oil pressure supply for the HPOP pressure at idle 28psi
2500 rpm's 60psi
HPOP at idle si 500psi, where it always is

Well take a look at the video and let me know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VkO8y0IhTo
 
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Powerstroke Cowboy

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If you rev it up to just 750 RPMs.. What does it sound like??? And what is the ICP @ then??

To me.. It sounds like you might need a little more ICP pressure... Could be all wet though..

My pickup has twin 15* HPOPs... 300/200 Injectors and it idles smooth and clean on the factory tune.. BUT I do not know how it will do hot yet..

My ICP is 550 to 600....
 
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Dieselboy.

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Hate to say it, but that sounds like injectors. 500psi should idle smooth.

Sounds and acts like mine did when they failed. Ended up nuking an oring and inducing combustion through the injectors.

I hope this is not your case or youve caught it quickly enough that it doesnt damage anything. all 8 of my injectors needed new plungers and barrells and new nozzles. I pretty much had to buy new injectors over again.
 

Powerstroke Cowboy

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Hate to say it, but that sounds like injectors. 500psi should idle smooth.

Sounds and acts like mine did when they failed. Ended up nuking an oring and inducing combustion through the injectors.

I hope this is not your case or youve caught it quickly enough that it doesnt damage anything. all 8 of my injectors needed new plungers and barrells and new nozzles. I pretty much had to buy new injectors over again.

That could be the case... There was a guy on here that had farmers injectors and had the same problem..

To the OP If it is the injectors.... Farmers WILL take care of you....
 

Chrisf97305

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The injectors have less then 500 miles on them.
The odd thing is that when its under power, it pulls real hard and smooth.
 

Dieselboy.

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The HPOP could actually cause that. However listening to the vid and the symptons. It did EXACTLY what my injectors did when they failed.

Cold, idled like a dream. Off idle it drove fine. WOT pulled like a muther. However at warm idle it chugged, shook, rocked, and stumbled, with a slight sligh miss if you will. No amount of tuning will fix a mechanical issue.
However just to be safe. I would start with the easiest things first. Check your IPR, ICP. Scan the truck for any soft codes. CCT and Buzz test (althought thats not the best way to determine) a rotational velocity test on AE I believe is a good test. Check UCVH connections. If you do the buzz test make sure its after the truck has sat overnight and hasnt ran.
Otherwise once its been cranked or fired it will free up the selenoids. Therefore it wont be an accurate test. CCT if it shows a bad hole, pull that injector I guess and swap it. See if the code follows.
That being said the CCT test shouldnt really be used to determine if an injector has failed for a few reasons.

But your symptoms sound exactly like mine. I drove the truck for a few weeks, which is porbably why they were so ***d when Nate finally got them.
 

Chrisf97305

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if i had any electrical issues, would not that show up as a error code. i have checked for codes and there is none. i know its not a tune issue because i am just using the stock tune. chip removed. still the same.
 

Derek@Vision Diesel

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I would HIGHLY suggest calling Michael. He will get you squared away, if you cant reach him I will contact him and have him call you!

And it does not matter if its and injector issue or its a tuning issue, he will still spend as much time as needed to get you taken care of.

Sounds like tuning to me, we have some sureflows running around this area and the one down side is no one really has the tuning perfected yet. The injectors impress the hell out of me and i sell them daily, just no tuners on board to get the stuff dialed in perfectly!
 

Chrisf97305

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I would HIGHLY suggest calling Michael. He will get you squared away, if you cant reach him I will contact him and have him call you!

And it does not matter if its and injector issue or its a tuning issue, he will still spend as much time as needed to get you taken care of.

Sounds like tuning to me, we have some sureflows running around this area and the one down side is no one really has the tuning perfected yet. The injectors impress the hell out of me and i sell them daily, just no tuners on board to get the stuff dialed in perfectly!

I know he will. I will be calling him on Monday morning.
 
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I had one doing similiar stuff last week and wasn't throwing a code for some odd reason. It ended up being ICP issues. I have also seen a IPR doing weird things only when hot also. What oil are you running?
 

Dieselboy.

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I would HIGHLY suggest calling Michael. He will get you squared away, if you cant reach him I will contact him and have him call you!

And it does not matter if its and injector issue or its a tuning issue, he will still spend as much time as needed to get you taken care of.

Sounds like tuning to me, we have some sureflows running around this area and the one down side is no one really has the tuning perfected yet. The injectors impress the hell out of me and i sell them daily, just no tuners on board to get the stuff dialed in perfectly!

Then you should stick to parts slinging...

OP said truck ran fine until.. So youre telling me that the PCM magically re-wrote his program that WORKED fine before ?

NO. Not possible. If it does it in every tune, all the time its not a tuning issue IF the truck ran fine before. You either have a bad pump, bad injector, bad o ring, sensor, harness etc.
This is not a call to jody and a tweak. Idle at 500ICP should be like glass.
FWIW when mine all shat the bed, it through no codes no SES light and when buzz test or CCT was done it would pass on time fail one hole one test pass the next and fail a different hole and so on...
Call mike, start looking at the simple things first. Pull the chip and run the truck. If its still has a crap idle. Guess what. Its NOT Tuning...
 

Dieselboy.

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Let me start this by saying this. I have not had a chance to talk to either Mike at Farmers, its his injectors, or DP who's tunes I am running. So every one knows this is not a bash fest, I am just trying to figure what is going on with my truck.

The injectors are Farmers, Sure Flow, 250 100's.
Dieselsite Adrenaline HPOP

Every thing was working great untill 2 weeks ago at my first pull. The pull was about 5 miles away form my home so I drove to the pull in my pulling tune. Its the first time that that I used the tune. As most pulls you get there at 10am and you don't pull till 3pm. So I started the truck and set the truck to high idle, 1000rps and it sounded like it was missing. Just let it warm up and then pulled. At full throttle the truck ran great. Then I set the tune back to stock and drove home. Then I started to notic that the idle started to have a loop to it. Then I drove it around in my 100 hp setting and the loop got worse. It was so bad that the tack was bouncing and the tail gate was squeeking.
So Saturday I took it out and tryed to hot rod it around and same thing, just idling like crap. Then I turned in to the store to get something to drink and it was idling so bad that it almost died. I turned the tune back to stock and drove home.
Then today I removed the chip to see if the tune was the problem and still the same. Cold it idles good but once it gets up to temp then idle goes to crap. But if I put my foot in it, it runs like great. So here is a video of what I am talking about.
There is no error codes.
Idle is 600 rpm's
Engine temp was 182
fuel pressure is 60psi
engine oil pressure is 32psi
2500 rpm,s, 70 psi
oil pressure supply for the HPOP pressure at idle 28psi
2500 rpm's 60psi
HPOP at idle si 500psi, where it always is

Well take a look at the video and let me know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VkO8y0IhTo


Groomz, in bold


Its not tuning,truck ran fine before.

The truck ran perfectly fine. The PCM cant overwrite a working tune. or Tunes. Thats what I ment.

I did say IF the truck ran fine before in those tunes, then its not the tunes.
 
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Derek@Vision Diesel

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I didn't read his entire post, I was busy doing a few things at once and just skimmed through it.

We have a set of these identical injectors in my partners truck, I have the minotaur software to play with the tuning, and we have had similar issues. So I just jumped to conclusion after skimming his post.

I completely agree it is probably not tuning, he did most things to eliminate tuning from the equation. Mike will have another set of those injectors on your doorstep in no time if it turns out to be a problem on the oil side of the injector (possibly a valve clearance issue causing low ICP on one bank, not noticeable on a gauge).

I am with you DieselBoy, tuning isnt his issue..... mis communication
 

Dieselboy.

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I didn't read his entire post, I was busy doing a few things at once and just skimmed through it.

We have a set of these identical injectors in my partners truck, I have the minotaur software to play with the tuning, and we have had similar issues. So I just jumped to conclusion after skimming his post.

I completely agree it is probably not tuning, he did most things to eliminate tuning from the equation. Mike will have another set of those injectors on your doorstep in no time if it turns out to be a problem on the oil side of the injector (possibly a valve clearance issue causing low ICP on one bank, not noticeable on a gauge).

I am with you DieselBoy, tuning isnt his issue..... mis communication

No worries. Im sure Mike will take care of him if it ends up being the sticks.

I had to skim through to see he pulled the chip.
 

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