spooling turbo with compressed air?

cfdeng7

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Hey guyslet me say first off I am by no means an expert in turbos and airflow etc. And this may be completely retarded but its just an idea I had. For guys that are running big turbos on the track or pulling and have trouble spooling them off the line could you run an air line feeding compressed air on the exhaust side of the turbo to increase to pressure and help spool the turbo? Would be really cheap and a lot of pulling classes say no nitrous. Would this work or am i crazy haha. Just an idea
 

Rubenk

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I think the biggest issue would be CFM. Sure that tank might be holding 120psi, but it wouldnt provide nearly enough CFM to help spool a turbo.

Just think about your inlet pipe's size...and when it spools it is pushing 25-35psi through a huge pipe compared to your typical airline
 

cfdeng7

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That's what I thought about cfm. What about a venturi? Although would the added restriction negate any possible gains from it? Just throwing ideas around but I have a feeling if it would work someone with more knowledge on the subject would have done it already.
 

HVFC6040

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I think buy forcing air into the exhaust side you are just creating more back pressure.

I thought about this a long time ago, had some old airpack bottles and a regulator. cfm wasnt even close to being able to do anything at all for the turbo.
 

cfdeng7

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impingment. Sounds like they are directing air directly at the fins on the turbo to speed it up. I'm gonna google it
 

cowboy_dan

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impingment. Sounds like they are directing air directly at the fins on the turbo to speed it up. I'm gonna google it

That's about the only way it would work.
Of course, on the big diesels you have do things and it will live that you can't on a LD pickup engine.
 

Rubenk

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I used to mount truck tires all the time, and we had a bead popper with a 2" hose and valve, with like a 150gal tank...and it would empty in no time when I opened that valve. I bet that still isnt even close to the CFM of an engine.
 

Rubenk

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Ok here is my amateur attempt at math...please poke any holes in it.

I figure at a 700rpm idle that a 6.0L would put out

35 liters_per_second =>
0.035 cubic_meters_per_second
2.1 cubic_meters_per_minute
126 cubic_meters_per_hour
35 liters_per_second
2100 liters_per_minute
126000 liters_per_hour
798000 us_gallons_per_day
555 us_gallons_per_minute
74.2 cubic_feet_per_minute
665000 imp_gallons_per_day
462 imp_gallons_per_minute


I figured that up by dividing 700 by 2(only exhausts every other revolution)
350 divided by 60 to get liters per second
Then plugged the L/s into this calculator to get the above numbers.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/flow-units-converter-d_405.html
 

cowboy_dan

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Back pressure will be a problem if you don't direct the air straight into the turbine at the housing.
Even then, you have to remember that now you need a nozzle at the back of the exhaust housing capable of moving at least 200CFM at a pressure greater than whatever is in the exhaust system.
Then, how are you going to trigger this system?
Put this on a 6L with a stock turbo and you're asking for trouble. Imagine what happens when you sock the air to it and the vanes are in the closed position! OVERSPEED!
 

cfdeng7

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My idea for its use was for guys running large non vgt turbos at the track or pulling to help spool it. Like I said I am by no means an expert on this stuff it was just an idea I was curious about and wanted to pick the knowledge on here.
 

wetnsloppy4x

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I don't have much on the compressed air idea, but...

I have never seen anything mentioned about using an anti-lag setup like they use in Formula1. You see these type of setups from time to time on certain race prepped imports.

I know very little about these setups, but for those not familiar, fuel is injected directly in front of the turbine. The resulting "explosions" create a pressure wave that lights the turbo.

I don't see this working by injecting diesel, but a stand alone system to inject gas has some interesting possibilities. I don't think it would work as a street setup though. Not very long at least. Anti-lag is known to eat turbos fairly quickly.

As to the OT, in my mind the plumbing neccessary to deliver the needed volume of air would make this a packaging nightmare.
 

a_moore

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I had an idea similar to this at one time but never tried it....

Inject water, instead of conventionally in charge air inject it into the exhaust manifolds.

Water turns to steam when heated expanding its volume many times. This would allow the turbo to be artifically spooled by the expanding steam. Yes, this will increase the backpressure......but that would be the desired result to increase the boost. Simply turn the water off when it is lit or at rpm, then dump it post turbo.

I never tried it, was too scared to thermally "shock" the wheel and trash a turbo.

Here is the exact amount of expansion when converting water to steam.

At standard temperature and pressure, pure steam (unmixed with air, but in equilibrium with liquid water) occupies about 1,600 times the volume of an equal mass of liquid water. From the wiki.
 

a_moore

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More importantly, the above is easier to package than a large air compressor or air tank.

AND it makes use of wasted energy (heat) only requiring water and a delivery method (typical water meth kit should work).
 
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Rubenk

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Somebody could test it easy enough by taking their egt probe out and putting a small nozzle there...but I dont know if your standard water/meth kit has a nozzle and such meant for 1000+ degrees.
 

cfdeng7

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that's an interesting idea I don't think the standard nozzle would hold up to the heatand the soot etc but I'm curious about this now. I have a feeling it probably wouldn't be good for the life of the turbo.
 

a_moore

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I do not think that atomization would be an issue, even if hosing it in through a 1/4'' steel tube.....more of an orifice fitting would suffice.
 

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