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Old 01-02-2013, 01:53 PM
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Default Trans tuning thread?

Can this be it?

I'm trying to wrap my head around why the canned S2M lugs into lockup so bad at part throttle vs. the factory EZ tuning.

I realize the torque scale is way off between factory tuning and a big tune like HD300, so I'm sure that's a factor.

I also realize that H&S uses hot mode to get 3rd lockup at WOT, but looking at the minimum speed ratio between the factory tuning and the H&S hot mode, there's a big difference there. I'm assuming that speed ratio is the difference between engine rpm and input rpm?

Can I just scooch the speed ratio higher and get closer to OEM engagement at part throttle?
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:14 PM
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The minimum speed ration does indeed have to do with when the torque converter will lock...but its more of an efficiency thing for when towing or under full power, this makes the converter lock later to help save the converter. So eccentially if it doesnt pass this effiecency ratio it will not lock untill its at this ratio.

What i would suggest is going thru the lock up tables and raising the mph of the lock up point
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:26 PM
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has anyone ever heard of eccc strategy?
some call it ec cubed?
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:28 PM
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it is basically a startegy that starting in 2nd sometimes 3rd gear partially slips the tcc, it is why most manufacturers use black high carbon content clutches.

Starting with partial coverage in 1997 and continuing with 1998 and later vehicles, the TCC strategy changed again. Similar to what we've just covered, the new strategy allows for the converter clutch to begin slipping as early as 2nd gear and to continue slipping until a cruising speed of approximately 54 mph has been reached. For this type of strategy to be successful, the type of material used for the clutch had to change. It should be noted that the original ON/OFF strategy utilized a cellulose-based converter clutch, otherwise known as a paper-lined clutch. The second strategy utilized a Kevlar-based lining (several designs, depending on 2WD, 4WD, heavy-duty, etc.) and for this third strategy, a carbon-based woven lining is used. This type of converter clutch apply is referred to as Electronically Controlled Clutch Capacity (ECCC), or EC 3 , for short.

In addition to these changes in material, the tension of the damper plate springs, which are integral to the clutch disc, was also altered. These springs act as shock absorbers, and their tension has progressively lightened from the ON/OFF strategy all the way through to the ECCC strategy. Should anyone modify the PWM or ECCC strategy to function as an ON/OFF apply while using a converter with a damper plate designed for PWM or ECCC, a tail end bump on the apply of the clutch would be felt, possibly resulting in a customer complaint. In some cases, a code for Converter Clutch Stuck On may also occur as a result of this modification to ECCC strategy vehicles.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:30 PM
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also helps with milage as there is less slippage
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:31 PM
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i bet h&s turns on hot mode to limt slippage as a hot mode will apply tcc early to cool trans and be a on/off strategy
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion6.7 View Post
i bet h&s turns on hot mode to limt slippage as a hot mode will apply tcc early to cool trans and be a on/off strategy
they turn on hot mode because the normal tuning strategy won't lock the converter in lower gears. they want to be able to lock the converter at WOT, so they just lower the "hot" temp threshold.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzchey21 View Post
The minimum speed ration does indeed have to do with when the torque converter will lock...but its more of an efficiency thing for when towing or under full power, this makes the converter lock later to help save the converter. So eccentially if it doesnt pass this effiecency ratio it will not lock untill its at this ratio.

What i would suggest is going thru the lock up tables and raising the mph of the lock up point
the lock up tables honestly don't make any sense... they are commanding lockup in 5th at like 45mph, but it doesn't happen until 51/52 at the very earliest.

my speedo is perfect per GPS, and when I watch the speed displayed by the MM, it matches my dash speedo perfectly

I can only assume it has to do with the speed ratio. I think the biggest issue I'm going to have to deal with is the torque/throttle scale. If I turn the power down to "no power", the shifting is a lot better. The problem is HD300 makes the same power at 25% throttle that the stock truck makes at 65%

And H&S shift points and lockup are pretty close to stock.

One thing I've thought about doing is tap into the trans temp circuit so that I can toggle between the regular and hot maps
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:01 AM
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Is the delay for lock up after the 4-5 shift set to 0

The converter should always be locked in 5th unless your in tow Haul with your foot to the floor
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzchey21 View Post
Is the delay for lock up after the 4-5 shift set to 0

The converter should always be locked in 5th unless your in tow Haul with your foot to the floor
It is set to 0, but I don't want the converter to always be locked in 5th... It's not like that from the factory.

I typically run S2M. I don't like the 4th gear lockup schedules because driving through town I'm sitting at 1800-2000 in 4th vs. 1300 in 5th unlocked.

But when you floor it, it still locks in 3rd/4th/5th.

My truck weighs 9500lbs. When the converter locks in 5th at part throttle at 55, pulling the revs down from 2200-2400 to 1700, it's annoying. It pulls the turbos down, the truck hazes, and I don't care to imagine the slippage going on in the converter. I'll accept abuse to the converter when I'm at WOT, but I see no need to tax it during normal driving
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:40 AM
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Look at the stock converter lockup tables for non "hot" lockup. Then just copy and paste them into the hot lockup section. You will now have the same lockup commands. Or return the tables that dictate when to enter hot mode, back to stock. Then just set your 5th lockup to match a stock file. Make sense?

I have adjusted the speed ratio trying to get the converter to lock sooner without much luck but I would set it to the lower of the two % to insure its not the reason.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:44 AM
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what are your guys having trouble with on the lockup. I always set mine to like .5 and let the speed vs throttle position tables do the rest.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:34 PM
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I actually have good luck with the s1l schedule but I dont feel the stock shifting is firm enough not to slip. My kem 345 was very quick and snappy where the h&s almost shifts like stock until you floor it. What are you guys adjusting to firm the shifts up and make them quicker? Thanks.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:01 PM
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Forest did you ever come up with a fix for this?
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:27 PM
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so i did some looking and if you look at the calulated torque table at the very top it looks to me like at the 1300-1700 rpm levels have far too low torque readings? I upped them and smoothed it but im not sure it helps, but it might make a difference for the stock to hot tables less noticable.

And i think what you need to do to get what you want is lower all the shift points, but raise the torque converter lock up speed so the truck will actually cruise in 5th with the converter unlocked.

Also it apears that for whatever reason the speed tables are not right. looks like they might be 5-10 mph off depending on gear ratio, tire size ect.

I know with sct there was two ways to calibrate the speedo, one was for the transmission and one was for the actual speedometer, i wonder if we are only changing one and thats why things arent working quite like we think they should?
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:36 AM
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Why would you want to have the torque converter unlocked cruising in 5th gear? That's just wasting fuel.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
Why would you want to have the torque converter unlocked cruising in 5th gear? That's just wasting fuel.
1300rpm wastes more fuel than 2000rpm? interesting
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunk on diesel View Post
1300rpm wastes more fuel than 2000rpm? interesting
I have never seen the engine speed lower with the converter unlocked? Are you sure you didn't miss read what he said?
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:05 AM
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If I'm cruising unlocked in 5th at 1300 RPM, I'm clearly driving too slow to be locked in 5th... I would be at 900RPM.

But the tune doesn't allow that, so my only alternative is to be in 4th at 2000rpm
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:08 PM
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well i have done just about everything i can to try and solve my unlock/lock during the shift and cant seam to figure it out, anyone else been messing with it?
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:08 PM
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im wondering if it has something to do with the torque/inertia phases i see the stock files and h&s files are the same
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:00 PM
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alright, another thing im not quiet understanding is the minimum speed ratio for lock up

right now the standard is 1.25 i think
the min speed ratio for lock up in hot mode is .56

So i changed the regular to .56 and it never locked the converter ever...

SO i guess i dont see how these two are used exactly
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzchey21 View Post
alright, another thing im not quiet understanding is the minimum speed ratio for lock up

right now the standard is 1.25 i think
the min speed ratio for lock up in hot mode is .56

So i changed the regular to .56 and it never locked the converter ever...

SO i guess i dont see how these two are used exactly
max doesn't really need to change

min is the one that needs changing because the lower the number, the more slipping there is.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:11 AM
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They are both labeled min
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:13 AM
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yeah the 1.05 or whatever the larger number is max not min. the only way to have this above a 1 is if the truck was coasting down a hill and the trans input shaft is turning faster than engine RPM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
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yeah the 1.05 or whatever the larger number is max not min. the only way to have this above a 1 is if the truck was coasting down a hill and the trans input shaft is turning faster than engine RPM.
So would it help to make that number closer to 2? I think its 1.25 now and the min is .56 currently the "max" is set to 1.56

I changed the min to .26 with no apparent change

I have also set the lock up rate during a lock to lock shift to 0 as well as the other shift lock up tables with no apparent change to anything

Might put a lock up switch on it and see if my issues go away and Make positive its a lock up problem and not a clutch application problem or something but I don't feel it is
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Last edited by Dzchey21; 05-30-2013 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:27 AM
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And fwiw I don't have issues with the converter locking I have issues with it unlocking seemingly at every shift and then re-locking right after. Converter seams solid when its locked I mean even at 80 when the tires break loose there is no slip
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:14 AM
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I have emailed Bentley about it and he is trying his hardest to look for the parameter that is keeping it from relocking. The tighter converters or the lower power tunes seem to allow lockup just fine.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:51 AM
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Like I said I have no issues with it locking when commanded to lock its the shifts after that fuk it all up
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:58 PM
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yeah when it downshifts and then can't relock fast enough, it cries uncle and won't relock to "save" the converter clutch.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:30 PM
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Dzchey, It sounds like you're trying to keep the converter from unlocking between up shifts under power if I'm reading it right?
Isn't the converter supposed to unlock between shifts under power, to put less stress on hard parts during a shift? Or is it unlocking during shifts at light throttle too?
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_C View Post
Dzchey, It sounds like you're trying to keep the converter from unlocking between up shifts under power if I'm reading it right?
Isn't the converter supposed to unlock between shifts under power, to put less stress on hard parts during a shift? Or is it unlocking during shifts at light throttle too?
It appears to only do it under full power from what I can feel.

I understand its probably trying to save parts. Mine takes seemingly forever to relock which I'm sure Costs me time at the track even if I could reduce the slip time for the unlock I would be happy
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Old 08-01-2013, 02:50 PM
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Is there any way that I can get the converter to lock as soon as it goes into second gear? Not a just WOT but like just when Im driving around town say at 5-10% throttle?
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Old 08-01-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
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Is there any way that I can get the converter to lock as soon as it goes into second gear? Not a just WOT but like just when Im driving around town say at 5-10% throttle?
Yes, you can. But you wont see any benefit from it unless your at WOT. My tune locks in 3rd at part throttle and that's plenty early enough..
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Old 08-01-2013, 05:38 PM
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I have been running a tune that locks in second and it works pretty well. The shift points are very hard to get right depending on how well the truck spools weight of the truck ect. I do like it better and I think the mileage is better. You do seem to lose some response since the rpm wont flash up the second you hit the throttle like unlocked.

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Old 08-02-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzchey21 View Post
I have been running a tune that locks in second and it works pretty well. The shift points are very hard to get right depending on how well the truck spools weight of the truck ect. I do like it better and I think the mileage is better. You do seem to lose some response since the rpm wont flash up the second you hit the throttle like unlocked.

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That's what I was going to try to get was better fuel mileage, it would have to help some.
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzchey21 View Post
And fwiw I don't have issues with the converter locking I have issues with it unlocking seemingly at every shift and then re-locking right after. Converter seams solid when its locked I mean even at 80 when the tires break loose there is no slip
Very old post I know but curious if you ever figured what to adjust to fix it? I'm having the same issue and been playing with the MCC myself but no luck. Locks strong in 4th, then unlocks, upshifts to 5th, and relocks strong in 5th; jerks the truck and rpms around a lot, especially if I try running a 3rd gear TC lock tune.

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