Blue smoke on cold start...

Yes, I know blue = oil, white = fuel, black = too much fuel, blah, blah. That isn't my question.

My scenario is this. Blue smoke on cold start ups, has a fuel type smell - makes your eyes water, but is blue smoke, and never ANY smoke on warm starts. Engine starts, runs perfectly irregardless of temperature but amount (volume) of blue smoke is directly proportionate to outside temps until EGT's hit over 500*, then no smoke of any kind after that, even when it returns to idle. No white smoke ever.

The truck started earlier this winter in -2*F on the GP's ONLY and ran fine. I have the hi idle tune and use it regularly but the EGT's never get warm enough for the smoke to stop so the high idle just raises the amount of smoke. The smoke started immediately after installing the injectors in sig. I am confident the injectors all got seated properly with soft taps from a mallet checked with a straight edge.

Boost, EGT's, SOTP power is all perfectly normal. It just seems that something in the engine/turbo requires 500* to seal then it's fine. What could it be? I had the exhaust side side of the turbo let go twice on this truck but the turbo that is on their now is a relatively new (not rebuilt, NEW) center section with less than 10K miles on it. Yes, I have hit 25+ psi boost a couple of times but in general I am very easy on this truck. EGT's have NEVER, and I mean NEVER, in 211K miles been above 1200* for ANY period of time.

Thoughts? Turbo? Injector or o-ring issue? Tuning? Sensor?

TIA.

See if all your glowplugs are hitting and your GPR is firing.

My truck does it. I only got 4 GP's working... I've been too damn lazy to change them out.

Sounds like a pretty typical cold-start diesel in the cold.

Mine did it slightly with stock injectors, usually once it dropped below freezing a small puff for a min.

Now with 160's and the ****ty tuning it'll water your eyes and just about knock you out it's so strong (too bad the truck continues to run this bad).

Anyway, with new injectors, Beru glow plugs, a strong working GPR, rebuilt turbo and the only notable oil loss being the level/gauge adapter, it's not oil being burned. I'm assuming it's timing being out slightly for the air temp . . .

Check GPR, check GP, make sure turbo isnt leaking oil, Make sure CCV isnt blocked.
How many miles? Could be getting a little low on compression in a couple holes. Does it go away when its warmed up?

jkidd_39 said:

See if all your glowplugs are hitting and your GPR is firing.

My truck does it. I only got 4 GP's working... I've been too damn lazy to change them out.

Click to expand...

GP's are brand new Beru at the same time as the injectors. When it started at below zero temps without being plugged in I was pretty sure that the GP system is working.

sniper_101 said:

Mine did it slightly with stock injectors, usually once it dropped below freezing a small puff for a min.

Now with 160's and the ****ty tuning it'll water your eyes and just about knock you out it's so strong (too bad the truck continues to run this bad).

Anyway, with new injectors, Beru glow plugs, a strong working GPR, rebuilt turbo and the only notable oil loss being the level/gauge adapter, it's not oil being burned. I'm assuming it's timing being out slightly for the air temp . . .

Click to expand...

THIS! This is exactly what I am describing, right down to no significant oil loss/consumption between oil changes. Maybe I do need to get Matt in on this...

SDstroker said:

Check GPR, check GP, make sure turbo isnt leaking oil, Make sure CCV isnt blocked.
How many miles? Could be getting a little low on compression in a couple holes. Does it go away when its warmed up?

Click to expand...

211K miles (as in original post) and I suppose compression could be an issue but then it would be using oil, correct? Completely stock CCV, turn the oil cap over on the oil spout and it doesn't move at all - no significant blow by.

it's likely the tuning...aren't all of these trucks (in this thread) 6speeds? DAC processor?

the factory tables are ***ked...

golfer said:

it's likely the tuning...aren't all of these trucks (in this thread) 6speeds? DAC processor?

the factory tables are ***ked...

Click to expand...

Thank you! Yes it is a six speed and previous tuners used DAC3, not sure about Matt's tunes. My truck was originally sold in Canada and used X__4 calibration instead of DAC when I first got it. Wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Gotta love a vendor that helps out with someone other companies' product. Thanks Golfer!

Mine white smokes at any temp even close to cold. It also only has 360 to 380 pounds of compression across the board with 100% nozzles.

Mines an auto and still does the slight blue smoke on startup.

Not slight blue, well the color is light blue, but the volume of smoke is not light at all. I live very rural with my closest neighbor being a half mile away so it generally isn't an issue. Recently I had to go to a city for a class and every morning the truck would completely fumigate the parking lot at the hotel with eye-watering smoke. As soon as I got a half mile down the road it was clear exhaust the rest of the day.

Like this?
http://s1204.beta.photobucket.com/user/opieg01/media/2011-10-21_07-43-27_887-2.mp4.html

Yep! That's pretty much it!

thats alot of smoke. with injectors in sig and no tuning it dident even smoke that much.

matt fixed that for me tho.

i think you may need a few tweeks done by your tuner.

and what was the cause with the truck in that video sdstroker?

(embarrassingly)...we just recently found this issue in the DAC base file...from which all 'custom' tunes are derived...it's possible that other tuners have made this same oversight.

ie...the Ford factory EOT vs RPM timing table has an obvious flaw in it.

at cold oil temp, and low rpm, this factory timing table has 12deg of injection delay (retardation)...most notable at cranking rpm.

just a few hundred rpm higher, and there is a TWENTY FIVE degree swing in this timing table (from -12deg to +13deg timing advance)...

this isn't at all 'dangerous' to the engine, but it does dramatically affect the amount of smoke on a cold start...since the injectors are literally firing very very veryyyyyy late into the cylinder...giving it that nice muffled (choking on soot) exhaust sound... since the fuel is simply not being combusted/burned anywhere near completion.

again, this is only going to apply to the L99-2001 6speed trucks with a DPC-421 processor. (QEK, VRP, ZHL, BAW, DAC, VXY, XPC)

Hey Dave when did you find this out? I get a slight haze but nothing more then a stock truck in the same conditions. I got tunes last Sept. (I think around there) from you. I have a DAC3 PCM.

golfer said:

(embarrassingly)...we just recently found this issue in the DAC base file...from which all 'custom' tunes are derived...it's possible that other tuners have made this same oversight.

ie...the Ford factory EOT vs RPM timing table has an obvious flaw in it.

at cold oil temp, and low rpm, this factory timing table has 12deg of injection delay (retardation)...most notable at cranking rpm.

just a few hundred rpm higher, and there is a TWENTY FIVE degree swing in this timing table (from -12deg to +13deg timing advance)...

this isn't at all 'dangerous' to the engine, but it does dramatically affect the amount of smoke on a cold start...since the injectors are literally firing very very veryyyyyy late into the cylinder...giving it that nice muffled (choking on soot) exhaust sound... since the fuel is simply not being combusted/burned anywhere near completion.

again, this is only going to apply to the L99-2001 6speed trucks with a DPC-421 processor. (QEK, VRP, ZHL, BAW, DAC, VXY, XPC)

Click to expand...

Spot on. That is exactly what it sounds and feels like.

The XPC4 code is what I was trying to think of in an earlier post.

Thanks again. I brought this thread to Matt's attention and hopefully he chimes in.

you're welcome to email me a list of the program names and I'll check them out.

I will also add..that just b/c your/"a" truck smokes on cold start up that it may or may not be at all related to the tuning...

cranking rpm, the condition of the engine (compression, valve/ring sealing, etc)...and a bazillion other mechanical factors (inj size/nozzle size/altitude, etc) could cause similar issues...even with all the 'timing' in the universe...

Dave if you have tome could I pm you a screen shot of my EOT v rpm table to see if I got rid of it or not?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

golfer said:

(embarrassingly)...we just recently found this issue in the DAC base file..
ie...the Ford factory EOT vs RPM timing table has an obvious flaw in it.

at cold oil temp, and low rpm, this factory timing table has 12deg of injection delay (retardation)...most notable at cranking rpm.

just a few hundred rpm higher, and there is a TWENTY FIVE degree swing in this timing table (from -12deg to +13deg timing advance)...

Click to expand...

would be intersted to see if this applys to AWA in the early 99's as well? mine has done this since i bought it with 54k on it. been running a DPC-421 DAC 3 for a about 5 yrs now (when going to single shots),while not as bad as the video it is still present. been through GP's,Relay, injectors, commpression test etc... nothing short of plugging it in seemed to help in the winter.