Biggest Injector On PMR's

caladash · Aug 6, 2011

Tuning tuning tuning!!! I know this is a very huge thing in what Im about to ask. But first...please keep it on topic. I would like to know what is the largest injector anyone has run on a PMR motor, or is still running, as well as fuel economy, tuner, and dyno numbers if you have em!! I have a spare motor in the works and another spare thats gonna get a basic rebuild. Im asking this because Im in the market for new injectors and have been sold on hybrids. Just havent decided how large yet. Once the motor is done I would like to adjust tuning and turbo and be ready to roll and not have to buy another set of injectors. I have no HP goal or torque goal. Just want to still be able to tow 15k without ridiculous egts and the occasional trip to the track or dyno. For some reason 300/200's sound good but injectors are not my thing. Thanks for the help and please keep it on topic.

TARM · Aug 6, 2011

I know 200% are right now and Bill I believe has put 400% or is going to. The size of the injectors is really not an issue other than actually in a number of ways larger can actually be safer. It comes not down to a injector as you can throw a rod with stock injectors its all about CP and at what point in the crank rotation combustion happens. So as much as you want to keep it about injectors it is going to always boil down to tuning. I know a guy right now running 200% and a 42 and conservative tuning that is doing fine so far.

David N · Aug 7, 2011

I have 250cc's on mine. And its only been a month but so far so good.

Derek@Vision Diesel · Aug 7, 2011

you can go as large as you want as long as the tuner knows what your running, but dont expect anything over a 200% to be an exceptionally great tow rig. And hopefully youve got a spare rig around to drive once it does go. Some engines will go 1k miles and some will go 201k, its basically WHEN not IF

TARM · Aug 7, 2011

Also guys the cc's/volume of the injector has no effect on how its going to perform past having enough capacity. What matters is the nozzle size. List the nozzle size if you are only going to list only one spec.

A 250cc/100% is going to make just as much power as 450cc/100% The nozzle is and always should be the limiting factor of which performance is controlled by.

Derek@Vision Diesel · Aug 7, 2011

TARM said:
Also guys the cc's/volume of the injector has no effect on how its going to perform past having enough capacity. What matters is the nozzle size. List the nozzle size if you are only going to list only one spec.

A 250cc/100% is going to make just as much power as 450cc/100% The nozzle is and always should be the limiting factor of which performance is controlled by.

good advice... ^^

PowerstrokeJunkie · Aug 7, 2011

You can run a competitoon 400/400 injector as long as the tuner knows what they are doing and keep the power below 400ish hp would keep cylinder pressures in the safe range for PMR rods (there's really no safe range as PMR and safe don't go together) you could even run stock turbo and fuel system

caladash · Aug 7, 2011

Great info Tarm!! Thank you everyone else as well.
Once i choose an injector I plan on having it live tuned at PHP. Probably around the 320,330 hp range. Im also curious how much fuel economy will improve. Once I have all the pieces to my puzzle is when I will crank everything up. Engine, fuel system etc etc!! For now its all about fuel economy. Id like to have all my performance crap either on the truck now or standing by once the motor is done. Hence the want for larger nozzled injectors. After reading Pockets thread, 250/200's might be the ones I get.

TARM · Aug 8, 2011

If you really want maximum mpg then I would go with something like a GT4294 1.15 Get a journal bearing one off a rig in the junk yard and pick up a rebuild kit and you will be out of it all for only a few hundred. You can 200% you are wanting to. I HIGHLY recommended Nate@ Unlimited!!! Go with a kit from Jake unless you weld and are doing it yourself or can find one used. If you want to get it done to save money down the road get the wastegated version of the kit.

The turbo lites plenty fast with the 1.15 housing and will let you tow all you want. What that turbo combo is gonna get you along with the injector is very low boost at cruising RPM and very low EGT that means very low drive pressure against you and efficient burn. Also with the power they are gonna have you tuned to you will not be close to overdrving the turbo at all but not be under it either. The turbo itself is going to be more efficient and for any given boost psi the charge will be cooler than smaller turbos or stock.

IMO if you want the very best get it live tuned. I think Bill or Matt is an awesome choice for tuners. I run Matts but would run Bills if Matt was not tuning. Get lived tune. Did I mention get live tuned. In case I forget later GET LIVE TUNED!!!

Then when you are ready to crank things up you can drop in a forged motor which are a dime a dozen in most salvage yards. Send your injectors out to be refreshed and have some fast mods done to get all you can out of the top end now as well. Add or start using that wastegate and get a good controller for it. Have it live tuned again and reserve some time on a load dyno during it. Still keep that mpg tune you already have as you can still run it with maybe a slight tweak. You then can take you 350HP original MPG tune and with the turn of a knob it will be a fire breathing ass kicking to a 575-600 HP truck. That will have you sliding all over the rode 4x4 or not be damned.

CurtisF · Aug 8, 2011

caladash said:
Tuning tuning tuning!!! I know this is a very huge thing in what Im about to ask. But first...please keep it on topic. I would like to know what is the largest injector anyone has run on a PMR motor, or is still running, as well as fuel economy, tuner, and dyno numbers if you have em!! I have a spare motor in the works and another spare thats gonna get a basic rebuild. Im asking this because Im in the market for new injectors and have been sold on hybrids. Just havent decided how large yet. Once the motor is done I would like to adjust tuning and turbo and be ready to roll and not have to buy another set of injectors. I have no HP goal or torque goal. Just want to still be able to tow 15k without ridiculous egts and the occasional trip to the track or dyno. For some reason 300/200's sound good but injectors are not my thing. Thanks for the help and please keep it on topic.

To answer your questions:

I'm running 250/200's on a PMR motor. Still running. MPG's are about the same as with stock injectors, I get about 16 mpg's mix (my truck has a 6" lift). Tunes are my own. Dyno'ed the truck last Friday and hit 408hp (corrected, don't know the uncorrected numbers). This was with timing pulled way back. The next day I advanced the timing quite a bit, then hit the track Sunday and laid down a 14.4 @ 92mph. My truck weighs in right at 8000 lbs with me in the driver's seat.

I've also been towing constantly with my truck. My "tow" tune dyno'ed at 310hp, yet EGT's are lower than bone stock tuning on stock injectors.

Basically, I've been very happy with them.

caladash · Aug 8, 2011

TARM said:
If you really want maximum mpg then I would go with something like a GT4294 1.15 Get a journal bearing one off a rig in the junk yard and pick up a rebuild kit and you will be out of it all for only a few hundred. You can 200% you are wanting to. I HIGHLY recommended Nate@ Unlimited!!! Go with a kit from Jake unless you weld and are doing it yourself or can find one used. If you want to get it done to save money down the road get the wastegated version of the kit.

The turbo lites plenty fast with the 1.15 housing and will let you tow all you want. What that turbo combo is gonna get you along with the injector is very low boost at cruising RPM and very low EGT that means very low drive pressure against you and efficient burn. Also with the power they are gonna have you tuned to you will not be close to overdrving the turbo at all but not be under it either. The turbo itself is going to be more efficient and for any given boost psi the charge will be cooler than smaller turbos or stock.

IMO if you want the very best get it live tuned. I think Bill or Matt is an awesome choice for tuners. I run Matts but would run Bills if Matt was not tuning. Get lived tune. Did I mention get live tuned. In case I forget later GET LIVE TUNED!!!

Then when you are ready to crank things up you can drop in a forged motor which are a dime a dozen in most salvage yards. Send your injectors out to be refreshed and have some fast mods done to get all you can out of the top end now as well. Add or start using that wastegate and get a good controller for it. Have it live tuned again and reserve some time on a load dyno during it. Still keep that mpg tune you already have as you can still run it with maybe a slight tweak. You then can take you 350HP original MPG tune and with the turn of a knob it will be a fire breathing ass kicking to a 575-600 HP truck. That will have you sliding all over the rode 4x4 or not be damned.

Is that a T4 or T4i? I dont think I want to reinvent the wheel and get another turbo. The plan was to get a modded H2E once the time came. This way all that had to be done once motor was complete is to swap injectors and turbo to new motor and crank up the tuning. Pretty much what you said!!

Pocket said:
To answer your questions:

I'm running 250/200's on a PMR motor. Still running. MPG's are about the same as with stock injectors, I get about 16 mpg's mix (my truck has a 6" lift). Tunes are my own. Dyno'ed the truck last Friday and hit 408hp (corrected, don't know the uncorrected numbers). This was with timing pulled way back. The next day I advanced the timing quite a bit, then hit the track Sunday and laid down a 14.4 @ 92mph. My truck weighs in right at 8000 lbs with me in the driver's seat.

I've also been towing constantly with my truck. My "tow" tune dyno'ed at 310hp, yet EGT's are lower than bone stock tuning on stock injectors.

Basically, I've been very happy with them.

Fantastic!! Thank you!!

Gearhead · Aug 9, 2011

You still have to match air-fuel ratio so if you aren't running a 75mm charger then don't even think about 400% nozzles. I know everyone is hell bent on 200% lately, but there are some negatives even with them. Although they are slight and you will see smoke when cold, haze when cruising sometimes, and a "notchy" pedal when at very light loads they do make good power.

caladash · Aug 9, 2011

At stockish level tuning, will a stock h2e be sufficient?

03_PSD · Aug 9, 2011

great info in here!

Gearhead · Aug 9, 2011

I like the 80% nozzes on an unmodified motor with a 38r or h2e. Head porting or turbo upgrade, look to a 100% nozzle with fuel side mods. 71mm or larger turbo 200% nozzles and fuel side mods. But that would be more power than you want for PMRs. Hell 100% nozzles can make 550HP.

Charles · Aug 9, 2011

Gearhead said:
You still have to match air-fuel ratio so if you aren't running a 75mm charger then don't even think about 400% nozzles. I know everyone is hell bent on 200% lately, but there are some negatives even with them. Although they are slight and you will see smoke when cold, haze when cruising sometimes, and a "notchy" pedal when at very light loads they do make good power.

The part in bold isn't a requirement. That is purely tuning related.

Gearhead · Aug 9, 2011

Charles said:
The part in bold isn't a requirement. That is purely tuning related.

I said very light load. It is a dance with ICP vs smokey cruise on very light trucks. A SD with 35s or larger would never notice but an OBS on stock tires would because the lack of load. You will feel the power come and go because the minimum quantity of fuel from the injectors is more than the truck requires to maintain speed at light cruise.

TARM · Aug 9, 2011

Matt,

I was mis-understanding what you were saying by light load. By that I was thinking more load on the turbo and was thinking at super light throttle. I did not consider effects of a super light truck at very light throttle on flat ground. As you know that is something I will never be dealing with on mine. I guess I could push to 400s LOL I figure most of the time I am floating around 9K LOL

I am not debating what can or can not be done with various nozzle sizes just that I was not fully understanding what was mean by light load.

Derek@Vision Diesel · Aug 9, 2011

Gearhead said:
You still have to match air-fuel ratio so if you aren't running a 75mm charger then don't even think about 400% nozzles. I know everyone is hell bent on 200% lately, but there are some negatives even with them. Although they are slight and you will see smoke when cold, haze when cruising sometimes, and a "notchy" pedal when at very light loads they do make good power.

how do you suggest getting rid of that haze... seems any slight hill and i have a haze to maintain speed