Go Back   PowerStrokeArmy > Power Strokes > 6.7 Aftermarket > 6.7 Tuning

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-11-2015, 10:01 AM
2012dually 2012dually is offline
Private
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Default Tuning Guide

I think everyone wold really benefit from a tuning guide of where to start, what to adjust first etc.

I know I personally want to start from my stock tune and make my own true tunes.

So where is the best place to start? Fuel Rail, Injection duration? Torque to fuel?

I found this http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3r...ics-guide.html

and this http://www.maxxtorque.com/2009/04/ef...mmon-rail.html

I am personally ******d as I am in Canada so do I need to only modify the EOM0 tables?
  #2  
Old 10-11-2015, 10:25 AM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default

I agree it would be great to have something to reference. Matt has been great at helping us on an economy thread jcain started but we do need a list of what each table does like 0,1,2,3,4 ect...and when they are used


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  #3  
Old 10-11-2015, 11:52 AM
2012dually 2012dually is offline
Private
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Default

I Agree it would be very helpful! I decided to purchase the pro racer package from SCT and a Livewire TS+ after chatting with a shop here in Canada. Wow there is way more tables compared to MCC! The tables are also labeled alot different in terms of the titles and everything is in Metric units supposedly how ford had programmed the trucks originally so there are no conversion factors used behind the scenes like MCC.
  #4  
Old 10-11-2015, 04:38 PM
SpartanDieselTech's Avatar
SpartanDieselTech SpartanDieselTech is offline
Lieutenant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 524
Default

6.7 Engine Operating Modes (EOM) are as follows:

EOM0- normal (in this mode 80% of the time, normal driving)
EOM1- Particulate Filter Regen 1 (regen warmup)
EOM2- Particulate Filter Regen 2 (active regen, closed-loop temp based Post2
injection)
EOM3- Partially homogeneous combustion (De-Sox, "sulphur regen")
EOM4- NSC Regen (Nox Storage Converter Regeneration, "De-Nox)

Most tuning will be done in EOM0. For on-road calibrations, be careful when tuning EOM1 through 4. It's important to add WOT fueling (through the torque to quantity conversions) to maintain power during regen states, but messing with timing and turbocharger controls can cause malfunctions or damage to the after-treatment system. You need to be very sure of what you are doing before making changes to those areas. For race tuning, the truck will remain in EOM0 if everything is calibrated properly.

As far as the base tables, such as tables labeled "Bas0", "Bas1", "Bas2", etc, those tables are selected by temperature and atmosphere conditions. Three things can affect this- ambient temperature, ambient pressure, and coolant (engine) temperature. There are other underlying tables that lay out these conditions (which are modifiable), but chances are you won't find them in MCC or SCT software. For most intents and purposes, these tables are coolant temperature based. "Very Cold" conditions (below -10) would fall into base 3 or 4, and rise through the operating range to base 0. Most tuning is done in base 0 and sometimes base 1. Below this is usually best left stock, for cold drivability purposes.

Configuration mode based tables depend on what injection events are currently active (pre injections 1 and 2, main, post injections, etc) and are defined by other underlying maps. Most performance gains will be seen configurations 1 and 2, sometimes 3 and 4.



One thing I'll pick apart concerning the linked articles, is starting with injection timing. I disagree. With the 6.7, torque limitations need to be removed first, then fueling and air, then timing. The amount of tolerance these engines have for injection timing is very dependant on overall fuel flow and boost pressures.


As far as unit conversions, it's correct that SCT left the units in metric (as it should be). Trying to convert back and forth is quite cumbersome, as torque beast has run into in the other thread. All OEM tuning is done in metric units, and if the software you are using is selectable between the two, I'd highly recommend sticking to metric.
__________________
Matt Geouge
President + Lead Calibration
******* Diesel Technologies, LLC
  #5  
Old 10-11-2015, 07:45 PM
2012dually 2012dually is offline
Private
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Default

That is some very helpful Information!!!!

So step by step tuning procedure for the 6.7:
1) Remove/increase all limiters
2) Increase fuel unitl constant smoke/haze under load, then
3) Increase air/boost where needed
4) Add timing

So what is actually causing the 6.7 to throw rods? is it too much commanded fuel and boost down low or too much timing?

From what I have read if you add fuel down low and retards timing it will help spool up as the fuel is injected later therefor more energy is in the exhaust vs used to force the piston down.

How to add fuel:
In the SCT Software I do not have "injection Quantity" only Injection Quantity to Energizing Time Conversion which looks to be the same thing.

Also I cannot seem to find the Torque to fuel conversion in SCT like the MCC does. It seems like MCC has renamed most of ther maps and tables etc which makes it more user friendly.

So add fuel in the higher rpms (say above 1600) to avoid too much torque down low and save the rods?
  #6  
Old 10-11-2015, 09:40 PM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by *******DieselTech View Post
6.7 Engine Operating Modes (EOM) are as follows:



EOM0- normal (in this mode 80% of the time, normal driving)

EOM1- Particulate Filter Regen 1 (regen warmup)

EOM2- Particulate Filter Regen 2 (active regen, closed-loop temp based Post2

injection)

EOM3- Partially homogeneous combustion (De-Sox, "sulphur regen")

EOM4- NSC Regen (Nox Storage Converter Regeneration, "De-Nox)



Most tuning will be done in EOM0. For on-road calibrations, be careful when tuning EOM1 through 4. It's important to add WOT fueling (through the torque to quantity conversions) to maintain power during regen states, but messing with timing and turbocharger controls can cause malfunctions or damage to the after-treatment system. You need to be very sure of what you are doing before making changes to those areas. For race tuning, the truck will remain in EOM0 if everything is calibrated properly.



As far as the base tables, such as tables labeled "Bas0", "Bas1", "Bas2", etc, those tables are selected by temperature and atmosphere conditions. Three things can affect this- ambient temperature, ambient pressure, and coolant (engine) temperature. There are other underlying tables that lay out these conditions (which are modifiable), but chances are you won't find them in MCC or SCT software. For most intents and purposes, these tables are coolant temperature based. "Very Cold" conditions (below -10) would fall into base 3 or 4, and rise through the operating range to base 0. Most tuning is done in base 0 and sometimes base 1. Below this is usually best left stock, for cold drivability purposes.



Configuration mode based tables depend on what injection events are currently active (pre injections 1 and 2, main, post injections, etc) and are defined by other underlying maps. Most performance gains will be seen configurations 1 and 2, sometimes 3 and 4.







One thing I'll pick apart concerning the linked articles, is starting with injection timing. I disagree. With the 6.7, torque limitations need to be removed first, then fueling and air, then timing. The amount of tolerance these engines have for injection timing is very dependant on overall fuel flow and boost pressures.





As far as unit conversions, it's correct that SCT left the units in metric (as it should be). Trying to convert back and forth is quite cumbersome, as torque beast has run into in the other thread. All OEM tuning is done in metric units, and if the software you are using is selectable between the two, I'd highly recommend sticking to metric.

It can be confusing at times. However by following your advice by changing duration and lambda back and using the torque to fuel has made my truck drives a lot better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012dually View Post
That is some very helpful Information!!!!



So step by step tuning procedure for the 6.7:

1) Remove/increase all limiters

2) Increase fuel unitl constant smoke/haze under load, then

3) Increase air/boost where needed

4) Add timing



So what is actually causing the 6.7 to throw rods? is it too much commanded fuel and boost down low or too much timing?



From what I have read if you add fuel down low and retards timing it will help spool up as the fuel is injected later therefor more energy is in the exhaust vs used to force the piston down.



How to add fuel:

In the SCT Software I do not have "injection Quantity" only Injection Quantity to Energizing Time Conversion which looks to be the same thing.



Also I cannot seem to find the Torque to fuel conversion in SCT like the MCC does. It seems like MCC has renamed most of ther maps and tables etc which makes it more user friendly.



So add fuel in the higher rpms (say above 1600) to avoid too much torque down low and save the rods?

That is what I did and is working good. Not sure what turbo you have but should not need to retard timing to spool stock turbo but it does help on larger turbos. One of the biggest mistakes IMO people make is add too much fuel down low. You can snuff out the fire with too much fuel.
  #7  
Old 10-12-2015, 05:32 PM
CoreyMS CoreyMS is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012dually View Post
That is some very helpful Information!!!!

So step by step tuning procedure for the 6.7:
1) Remove/increase all limiters
2) Increase fuel unitl constant smoke/haze under load, then
3) Increase air/boost where needed
4) Add timing

So what is actually causing the 6.7 to throw rods? is it too much commanded fuel and boost down low or too much timing?

From what I have read if you add fuel down low and retards timing it will help spool up as the fuel is injected later therefor more energy is in the exhaust vs used to force the piston down.

How to add fuel:
In the SCT Software I do not have "injection Quantity" only Injection Quantity to Energizing Time Conversion which looks to be the same thing.

Also I cannot seem to find the Torque to fuel conversion in SCT like the MCC does. It seems like MCC has renamed most of ther maps and tables etc which makes it more user friendly.

So add fuel in the higher rpms (say above 1600) to avoid too much torque down low and save the rods?
You have the value files right?

I would do something similar but wouldn't push the fuel until you do a different turbo, assuming your on the stock charger. Some maybe as needed.
  #8  
Old 10-13-2015, 12:16 AM
2012dually 2012dually is offline
Private
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Default

Quote:
You have the value files right?
Yes I have the value files but for my 2012 it is only the limiters that are changed and the fuel rail pressure to voltage sensor table. No other changes to boost or trans.
  #9  
Old 10-13-2015, 08:31 PM
Azraie218 Azraie218 is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 113
Default

thanks for the info on the OEM, now i have a question regarding them, i see temp 1,2,3,4... what do those represent and do we have to change all the tables in those to the same?
  #10  
Old 10-13-2015, 08:40 PM
2012dually 2012dually is offline
Private
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azraie218 View Post
thanks for the info on the OEM, now i have a question regarding them, i see temp 1,2,3,4... what do those represent and do we have to change all the tables in those to the same?
Those temps correspond to engine coolant temperature and ambient temp. Temp 4 would be the coldest and temp 1 is operating condition.

Typically you would only want to modify temp1 maps/tables as that is for the engine at operating temp but may want to tweak temp2 as well if your temp1 maps are significantly different from stock to avoid a huge jump
  #11  
Old 10-13-2015, 08:44 PM
Azraie218 Azraie218 is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 113
Default

oh ok, now its starting to seem much easier to grasp at all this.... this thread is beginning to become very helpful to learn how to tune....
  #12  
Old 10-13-2015, 09:29 PM
2012dually 2012dually is offline
Private
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Default

Agreed! *******DieselTech has sure provided some great info! I decided to go with SCT as I was told it was basically like tuning the factory maps where as mcc renamed maps, didnt include some, etc. There is no support for it compared to MCC though!
  #13  
Old 10-13-2015, 10:56 PM
drunk on diesel drunk on diesel is offline
Sponsor
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,184
Default

Matt, thank you for clarifying the EOM's for everybody. It is really kind of you to share that info. It may seem pedestrian and ho-hum to you, but for the average enthusiast, that kind of info just doesn't come up on a web search!

Your willingness to help others for no other reason than to help others is very refreshing in this day and age and in this particular facet of this industry!
  #14  
Old 10-14-2015, 08:33 AM
Azraie218 Azraie218 is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 113
Default

I agree, thank you very much Matt and any one who has contributed to this thread to help new guys who want to learn a bit have an easier and more enjoyable time seeing what they can make their trucks do! Though I'll never be a pro tuner it's still a lot of fun messing around and any help to understanding how this works is greatly appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  #15  
Old 10-14-2015, 09:58 AM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default Tuning Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by drunk on diesel View Post
Matt, thank you for clarifying the EOM's for everybody. It is really kind of you to share that info. It may seem pedestrian and ho-hum to you, but for the average enthusiast, that kind of info just doesn't come up on a web search!

Your willingness to help others for no other reason than to help others is very refreshing in this day and age and in this particular facet of this industry!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Azraie218 View Post
I agree, thank you very much Matt and any one who has contributed to this thread to help new guys who want to learn a bit have an easier and more enjoyable time seeing what they can make their trucks do! Though I'll never be a pro tuner it's still a lot of fun messing around and any help to understanding how this works is greatly appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can say his advice has helped with mine and has made it fun all over again. Matt knows what he is doing so this should also help those out there that don't want to risk tuning on their own and just buy a tuner from a reputable source with preloaded tunes.

Last edited by torque beast; 10-14-2015 at 10:01 AM.
  #16  
Old 10-14-2015, 10:31 AM
Azraie218 Azraie218 is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by torque beast View Post
I can say his advice has helped with mine and has made it fun all over again. Matt knows what he is doing so this should also help those out there that don't want to risk tuning on their own and just buy a tuner from a reputable source with preloaded tunes.

I agree! He's very helpful, I have been struggling trying to figure every thing out, sure has helped


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  #17  
Old 10-26-2015, 06:07 PM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default

Has anyone changed the x and y axis?
  #18  
Old 10-26-2015, 09:42 PM
SpartanDieselTech's Avatar
SpartanDieselTech SpartanDieselTech is offline
Lieutenant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by torque beast View Post
Has anyone changed the x and y axis?
Which tables are you referring to?
__________________
Matt Geouge
President + Lead Calibration
******* Diesel Technologies, LLC
  #19  
Old 10-27-2015, 09:43 AM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default Tuning Guide

Acc to torque and torque to fuel. If the axis in the last column shows 958 torque does it do any good to raise those above that number? For example, the axis shows 958, Is there any gain from putting 958 in the cells below in the column vs 1200

Last edited by torque beast; 10-27-2015 at 09:50 AM.
  #20  
Old 11-04-2015, 11:09 PM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default

Are you guys leaving the acc pedal map stock or are you raising the top to 100%?
  #21  
Old 11-05-2015, 03:31 AM
CoreyMS CoreyMS is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 108
Default

I did 1600+ up at 100%
  #22  
Old 11-05-2015, 11:37 AM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default

Here is what I did, one going off stock profile and one raising top to 100%

Stock




Modified


  #23  
Old 11-05-2015, 03:50 PM
2012dually 2012dually is offline
Private
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Default

If none of the fuel or boost tables torque axis goes above say 1000, why would you have your pedal to torque map at 1200?

Looking at your pedal to torque map you would theoretically be commanding full torque at 52% pedal position and 2000 rpm
  #24  
Old 11-06-2015, 12:11 PM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012dually View Post
If none of the fuel or boost tables torque axis goes above say 1000, why would you have your pedal to torque map at 1200?

Looking at your pedal to torque map you would theoretically be commanding full torque at 52% pedal position and 2000 rpm

Ya that is one of the questions I had. Doesn't make sense but the H&S box tune had 1174 in there as well. Not sure if it's right or wrong but I'm like you I don't see a need to go above what's in the axis


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  #25  
Old 11-06-2015, 02:07 PM
torque beast torque beast is offline
Sergeant
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 357
Default Tuning Guide

Also, my stock table shows a high of 991 but that could be screwed up too as most of my stock tables had issues
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:47 AM.

 

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Designed by Military Ltd