NEW Power Hungry Insight PRO

Chatham036 · Jun 7, 2016

The cat is out of the bag about the new Edge Insight PRO about to hit the market.

This will be the same as an Edge Insight out of the box, but you will have the ability to load custom tunes directly onto the insight and use it as a programmer rather than to monitor alone.

Best of all, it will be set up to use Minotaur Tuning Software opposed to some of the other software on the market.

The Power Hungry Insight PRO will only be available for purchase through us directly or through one of our authorized dealers. These devices have to be set up differently than the standard insight PRO in order to be used with Minotaur.

If an insight pro is purchased elsewhere, it will not have the ability to be converted into a Power Hungry Insight PRO unfortunately.

Retail price has not been determined yet on the programmer. Actual release date should be within the next few weeks.

We will have three options available for sale:
Minotaur Tuning Software PRO

Available for use on all 6.0L strategies.

Minotaur Tuning Software - Standard Edition

Perfect for the advanced enthusiast who wants to tune his own truck or modify his own transmission shift points / pressures. This package will include the software as well as the Power Hungry Insight PRO

Power Hungry Insight PRO

This will be perfect if you know someone who has Minotaur to write you files. This option will be similar to the SCT platform... only better because it is PHP :wink:

strokin6L · Jun 7, 2016

Jay...will the insight pro also be used as an FICM tuner?

Chatham036 · Jun 7, 2016

No sir, not at this time. Currently it is set as strictly a PCM programmer.

jeremiahmercier · Jun 7, 2016

Is there pulse width tables to use with Minotaur? This might catch some people's attention, as it would allow easier tuning for towing and better egt control with larger nozzles, like people are finding with the 7.3s

06-6.0l, studded, reworked heads, egr ******, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, dummy plugs, stand pipe, upgraded stc fitting, New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, stage 1 powermax, and Looney wild, 325/65R18

Gearhead · Jun 7, 2016

PW table is actually in the ficm software... we have to dance around it with the pcm's command of volume fuel desired...

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KCTurbos · Jun 7, 2016

Where do we sign up? I would like to give it a try.

How does your minitar software compare to SCT?

kwelch08 · Jun 7, 2016

I want one.

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nighthawk285 · Jun 7, 2016

Well chit.....I'm glad I haven't ordered my FICM tuner yet.....guess that just got pushed back again

jeremiahmercier · Jun 7, 2016

******** said:
PW table is actually in the ficm software... we have to dance around it with the pcm's command of volume fuel desired...

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I was not aware of that, I'm just confused because I thought it was so different coming to the 6.0 after the 7.3, and one of the best things I ever did was put 100% nozzles in my 96, it ran soo much cooler and cleaner than 160/0s ever did, and way more power to boot. Matt, by the way I have been very pleased with the tunes you sent me, you fixed all the things I said I didn't like about my other tunes, and kept the things I did like, my cruising egts (empty) are on average 100* cooler, way less smoke, almost none, on point with trans shifting (especially the OD downshift), and just so refined and smooth compared to the other tunes I had. Now that it's camping season, I will be towing a lot here soon, and will let you know how your tow tune compares as well. Oh and also, I averaged 1.7mpg on same trips, with your tunes as well...

So for the future Matt, are you saying if I chose to go with say a 175 or 190/75, and the right turbo, you are confident we can keep it cool towing a 15,000lb 5er?

06-6.0l, studded, reworked heads, egr ******, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, dummy plugs, stand pipe, upgraded stc fitting, New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, stage 1 powermax, and Looney wild, 325/65R18

Gearhead · Jun 7, 2016

No I wouldn't say that until we get some ficm software...

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Luke@MillerPerformance · Jun 7, 2016

I will be stocking these!

KCTurbos · Jun 7, 2016

jeremiahmercier said:
So for the future Matt, are you saying if I chose to go with say a 175 or 190/75, and the right turbo, you are confident we can keep it cool towing a 15,000lb 5er?

I know your question was to matt... but I will pass along what I know

It is tough with the 6.0 pulse width because you basically use a few data points (like 5 or 6) to fool/skew the ICP sensor to try and adapt to about 100 data points that we wished we had. This makes it very tough to get the 6.0 to do exactly what we want.

It is not possible to "just pull fuel down low". There is no table to pull from. You do your best to fool another sensor to get the fuel where you want it. At some point you end up messing up a lot of other things and the tunes can run weird. It is sad but without the PW table the 6.0 will always be limited and larger nozzles will be tough to tow with and keep clean down low.

06f250powerstroke · Jun 7, 2016

Will the pw table ever be available for the 6.0 or is it just not there

jeremiahmercier · Jun 7, 2016

KCTurbos said:
I know your question was to matt... but I will pass along what I know

It is tough with the 6.0 pulse width because you basically use a few data points (like 5 or 6) to fool/skew the ICP sensor to try and adapt to about 100 data points that we wished we had. This makes it very tough to get the 6.0 to do exactly what we want.

It is not possible to "just pull fuel down low". There is no table to pull from. You do your best to fool another sensor to get the fuel where you want it. At some point you end up messing up a lot of other things and the tunes can run weird. It is sad but without the PW table the 6.0 will always be limited and larger nozzles will be tough to tow with and keep clean down low.

I'm glad you responded as well, because I have some turbo questions too, and that is an important part of the equation. But I will PM you about that so as not to get this thread off topic

06-6.0l, studded, reworked heads, egr ******, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, dummy plugs, stand pipe, upgraded stc fitting, New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, stage 1 powermax, and Looney wild, 325/65R18

KCTurbos · Jun 7, 2016

06f250powerstroke said:
Will the pw table ever be available for the 6.0 or is it just not there

PHP and ********** have access to the PW table. It is in the FICM. Pairing a great SCT tune with a great FICM tune has done wonders for my truck.

It would be amazing if someone would figure out how to incorporate both FICM and SCT tuning into the same programmer and make it a one step process.

Chatham036 · Jun 8, 2016

******** said:
No I wouldn't say that until we get some ficm software...

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You might be waiting for a while on this. After a short discussion with Bill, the discussion on letting the FICM tuning go open market was quickly shut down.
Although you could write your PCM tunes to be more compliment with the current FICM programming on the market

The only time I hear any negative feedback on the FICM tuning is from people who are running your SCT tunes. Im not sure what you are doing differently, but the combination of the your tunes and the FICM tuning usually doesnt fair well unless the FICM tune stays on the Econ setting. Atlas40 and up seem to not jive well.

Just my experience in the mix.

Most people who have the FICM tuner and SCT tunes are able to load their power tune into the PCM then adjust the fuel maps to add or take away fuel using the FICM tuner to dial in the truck for their driving style / desire. This is what I do on my personal truck and it works great.
I run our 200x on the PCM then the Econ for daily driving. If I want to go to the track or dyno, I will just load up the Herc and it picks up a considerable amount of power. On the Econ FICM tune with our 200x, I see around 1.8-1.9ms pw at wot. On the herc FICM tune with the 200x I see around 2.3-2.4 ms PW at WOT. As we both know, there is a big power difference between those two PW values so long as the injector doesnt fully empty / HPOP can support the volume.

KCTurbos said:
PHP and ********** have access to the PW table. It is in the FICM. Pairing a great SCT tune with a great FICM tune has done wonders for my truck.

It would be amazing if someone would figure out how to incorporate both FICM and SCT tuning into the same programmer and make it a one step process.

The only people who have access to FICM tuning and PW tables is ID Motorsports (Eric Eldreth) and us. From what I have read on the forums, no disrespect to Eric, but they don't seem to compare to each other based off customer reviews. :shrug:

InnovativeDiesel · Jun 8, 2016

Chatham036 said:
You might be waiting for a while on this. After a short discussion with Bill, the discussion on letting the FICM tuning go open market was quickly shut down.
Although you could write your PCM tunes to be more compliment with the current FICM programming on the market

The only time I hear any negative feedback on the FICM tuning is from people who are running your SCT tunes. Im not sure what you are doing differently, but the combination of the your tunes and the FICM tuning usually doesnt fair well unless the FICM tune stays on the Econ setting. Atlas40 and up seem to not jive well.

Just my experience in the mix.

Most people who have the FICM tuner and SCT tunes are able to load their power tune into the PCM then adjust the fuel maps to add or take away fuel using the FICM tuner to dial in the truck for their driving style / desire. This is what I do on my personal truck and it works great.
I run our 200x on the PCM then the Econ for daily driving. If I want to go to the track or dyno, I will just load up the Herc and it picks up a considerable amount of power. On the Econ FICM tune with our 200x, I see around 1.8-1.9ms pw at wot. On the herc FICM tune with the 200x I see around 2.3-2.4 ms PW at WOT. As we both know, there is a big power difference between those two PW values so long as the injector doesnt fully empty / HPOP can support the volume.

The only people who have access to FICM tuning and PW tables is ID Motorsports (Eric Eldreth) and us. From what I have read on the forums, no disrespect to Eric, but they don't seem to compare to each other based off customer reviews. :shrug:

It's not necessarily the SCT software that conflicts with your FICM tuning, it's that both the PCM and FICM tuning have the same changes.

I have yet to see a truck make more power with your "high power" FICM tuning and a mild PCM tune, than a truck with a high power PCM tuning and mild FICM tune. There's a reason the most powerful trucks run SCT.

Thanks

Eric

Chatham036 · Jun 8, 2016

**********Diesel said:
It's not necessarily the SCT software that conflicts with your FICM tuning, it's that both the PCM and FICM tuning have the same changes.

I have yet to see a truck make more power with your "high power" FICM tuning and a mild PCM tune, than a truck with a high power PCM tuning and mild FICM tune. There's a reason the most powerful trucks run SCT.

Thanks

Eric

I'm not following you on the first comment that the conflict is from the PCM and FICM having the same changes. The best you can do in the PCM is to expand your mg/stroke while spoofing the ICP to make power. While the main FICM inputs RPM, mass fuel desired, and ICP then the FICM will calculate the PW based off these values.

Peak power being determined by having full ICP pressure, expanding the PW to fully deplete the injector, timing, and to have adequate air / nitrous.

In my experience, the PCM tuning alone is limited in the how far you can open the pulsewidth. You have been tuning longer than I have personally. Maybe you found a way around the limitation?

here is an email I just sent out to Derek at Vision. I think it helps to explain my point.

--His original email--
"Hey man we put 350/100 8mm hybrids in our race truck from Warren. It runs fantastic, I just know we had the FICM tuning in there from the 225/100 conventional's. Do we need to have anything changed? Is there a certain point where it would be pointless to run FICM tuning on top of the PCM tuning? "

--My Reply--
"I have actually found the opposite when trying to build power. The PCM has a lot of limitation in it for how wide you can open up the PW. The FICM tuner in conjunction will get around this quite well.

The only thing you will encounter is if you are running a max of 2.0 ms PW (limited by the PCM tuning)… but your injectors don’t fully deplete until 2.6ms… you can use the FICM tuning to gain the extra .6 ms pw to get the most power out of the injectors that you can’t get from PCM tuning alone.

Using the same logic, if your injector depletes at 2.0ms PW and your PCM tuning is set at 2.0 ms PW, you will not gain any performance from the FICM tune on the top end because their isn’t enough fuel. Even in this situation, I still recommend the Econ FICM tune because it will add a better profile to the FICM fuel maps without opening the PW on the top end. In this situation, the Econ FICM tune will be most noticeable on the bottom end response "

Values listed in the email are arbitrary. They are simply used to explain the logic/ theory behind it.

I am not too arrogant to learn something. Particularly from you as you have more 6.0L trucks in the 10 second arena than most of the other tuners out there. If my thought process on this is incorrect in any way, please correct me.

DiehardFordguy · Jun 8, 2016

**********Diesel said:
It's not necessarily the SCT software that conflicts with your FICM tuning, it's that both the PCM and FICM tuning have the same changes.

I have yet to see a truck make more power with your "high power" FICM tuning and a mild PCM tune, than a truck with a high power PCM tuning and mild FICM tune. There's a reason the most powerful trucks run SCT.

Thanks

Eric

Are there tables that conflict? Why couldn't you guys with access to both tweak them in conjunction to run perfectly? Maybe you're doing that already?

Gearhead · Jun 8, 2016

The issue is that we need more idle and low-load resolution not more pulsewidth everywhere when it comes to bigger nozzles. We can only do so much in the pcm fueling parameters.

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