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Old 10-31-2016, 08:24 PM
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Default Steering Gear Issues [Solved]

I feel as if I take more from this forum than I give. Here's a bit of giving instead.

Over the past 5 years I have dealt with steering slop on my truck. I started with the usual gamut of ball joints, tie rods, track bar, OUO ALAs, .... and the problems continued. My last resort was to swap out the steering gear with a redhead.

The first Redhead was slightly better but still way too much dead zone. They had great customer service and shipped me out another one within a week. This one improved 90% but still not how it should be. Considering that I have owned this truck since it had 7500 miles ( and the this issue has progressively gotten worse since) I knew it had to be something deteriorating over time.

Fast forward 2 years. I got my hands on a brand new gear box out of 2016. I didn't know but at some point from 2010 to 2016 the gear box underwent a complete overhaul - the newer box is considerably bigger. The box was a direct swap into my 2010. PROBLEM SOLVED! Also the steering is much softer - I can turn the wheel with my pinky. There's zero binding, no dead spots when trying to turn stopped and loaded, and finaly---- no wandering.

For those looking for a heavier duty upgrade to the older gear boxes - This worked on a 2010 F250 HD.

If I find a picture I took of them side-by-side I will post.

Regards,

Pete
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Last edited by PrecisionEngine; 10-31-2016 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 10-31-2016, 09:35 PM
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I wonnnnnnndered about this. As I've stated in the past and even recently im underwhelmed by the redhead box. Im not saying its good, bad, or the other. Just not a big tadoo for my Turkish lyra.

If you get a minute snap some pics.
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Old 10-31-2016, 09:54 PM
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Seen a lot of issues with them recently.
On fte, a guy had the shaft snap. Luckily he wasn't on the highway. It was a few years old, but had very little miles on it.
They basically said thanks for letting us know. And that's it.

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Old 10-31-2016, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCorr View Post
I wonnnnnnndered about this. As I've stated in the past and even recently im underwhelmed by the redhead box. Im not saying its good, bad, or the other. Just not a big tadoo for my Turkish lyra.

If you get a minute snap some pics.
I'm not complaining about them. They did a decent job and really tried to please me. But I just think that style box is sub-par for the size of these trucks. The newer style box really moves the front end effortlessly. And, it's precise. I've got a lead foot when traveling on open highway roads; you can steer with confidence at any speed your heart desires.


I recently swapped phones. I'll try to find the pictures.
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Old 10-31-2016, 10:41 PM
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Replaced the OEM box on my 04 with a Red Head. Never had an issue with it, though I needed some motion fore or aft to turn the 37x13.5 Toyo on dry pavement. On my 16, I can turn the wheels without any effort of my exposed aggregate (sharp rock) driveway. Same tires. Visibly larger sector shaft on the new one.
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:57 PM
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Anyone know when they went to the larger box?
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:54 PM
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If you find those picture post them up. I may see about retro fitting one into my 04. My steering box is about toast and hates my 40's. I have been looking for a remedy when I do my ball joints, dual steering stabilizer, and some other front end parts.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:18 PM
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Interested in this as well. Was planning on going redhead on my excursion when I put the 05 box on, but this may be a better option.
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Old 11-03-2016, 05:45 PM
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I can't find them at the moment. I went through a rather significant build on this truck in the summer. In the process, I had to switch phones and lost some of the pictures.

I think they might have been saved in a back-up nested in iTunes but I don't have time to figure all that out right now.

I can take pictures of it on the truck if anyone wants , but not much to see there except that it looks bigger.



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Old 11-03-2016, 06:12 PM
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Note: will need bolts from newer gearbox. Everything else: pitman arm, rag joint, and lines (minor tweaking) , swaps directly in.



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Old 11-03-2016, 09:00 PM
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So if I understand this will direct swap into the pre 2010 year?

If so, will be pricing one out tomorrow.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader's Fury View Post
So if I understand this will direct swap into the pre 2010 year?

If so, will be pricing one out tomorrow.
yes - it swapped into my 2010. I had the fortunate opportunity to park a 2016 next to my 2010 and try this test.

I don't know the differences year to year. You would have to figure out if it works on earlier model trucks.

From what I have read, the boxes are the same from 05-10, but don't quote me on that.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:17 PM
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Guess I will try it and post up. Should be able to return it if it doesn't fit.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:21 PM
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I tried digging through photos again, doesn't look like the box comparison shots made it. Here's a picture of the VIN tag off the truck i performed the test with.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1474.JPG (1.73 MB, 121 views)
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:32 PM
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Thanks for that. I was just going to tell them to go out to one on the lot haha.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader's Fury View Post
Thanks for that. I was just going to tell them to go out to one on the lot haha.
Don't forget the three bolts, they are a larger diameter.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:39 PM
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Good point. That might be an issue. Already had to slightly enlarge the mounting holes to fit the 05 box on the 02 frame.

Depending on the difference in size it might not fit the pre 05 frames.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader's Fury View Post
Good point. That might be an issue. Already had to slightly enlarge the mounting holes to fit the 05 box on the 02 frame.

Depending on the difference in size it might not fit the pre 05 frames.
Mine went in snug, but i didn't have to enlarge any of the holes.
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  #19  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:46 AM
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Wow that box is not cheap. 800 with a 250 core.

Although i believe the red head is 700 so that is not much more.
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:23 AM
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Is this the p/n you used? I looked on sunrise and this is what I came up with for a 2015 (as new as they went) 8C3Z-3504-B.

Its 1k+
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:49 AM
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001M/BC3Z3504A

That is the part number my guy pulled from the Vin listed above.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:15 PM
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If I had to rate the improvement/change per modification to the steering/suspension - this would be at the top of the list:

1. 2016 steering gear
2. OUO ALAs
3. Traction blocks.

I hope that helps put things into perspective.
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Old 11-06-2016, 09:33 AM
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Theres a reason the box costs so much. Its not junk like the 600$ turds on the 99-04 stuff. I realize the deficiency in the boxes but ive never had the issues others do. If I wasnnt running around on 36-40x 14.5&15.50 on 12 wides from 00-09 my stock box would still be on mine.

I like the idea of the oem box over the redhead as thry arent a one and done type deal. They should be however for what they cost.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:48 AM
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I'm not complaining about the price, just posting up for others.

I plan to order on once I get back to working on my Ex. Just gotta get these 6.0 out of my shop first.
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Old 11-07-2016, 04:39 PM
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There was a change in 2008, so unless there is another change, this gearbox would be the same. Precision, did you look at the two boxes side by side? I went to rock auto and can get a A1 Cardone for about 400 and a motocraft one is 1100, both are reman.
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Old 11-07-2016, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre32 View Post
There was a change in 2008, so unless there is another change, this gearbox would be the same. Precision, did you look at the two boxes side by side? I went to rock auto and can get a A1 Cardone for about 400 and a motocraft one is 1100, both are reman.


The prefix would suggest it's a later part. The 08-10 boxes were 8C3Z iirc.
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:15 PM
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Ok, cause on rock auto this is what they have....

MOTORCRAFT STG285 {#7C3Z3504BA, 8C3Z3504B, STG278}
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre32 View Post
There was a change in 2008, so unless there is another change, this gearbox would be the same. Precision, did you look at the two boxes side by side? I went to rock auto and can get a A1 Cardone for about 400 and a motocraft one is 1100, both are reman.
Yes. I had taken side-by-side photos with intentions of posting them here. Unfortunately, I lost the photos.

The 2016 box is visually larger. You don't even need to see it next to the other box to notice; bluntly obvious. I noticed just laying underneath the 2016 and looking at the box installed. That is what led to the experiment of swapping the boxes.

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Old 11-08-2016, 08:18 AM
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are the boxes the same from 2011 on up?
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Old 11-08-2016, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre32 View Post
are the boxes the same from 2011 on up?
I have no idea. A quick search online reveals there's a couple different options.

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Old 11-10-2016, 11:22 PM
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Interesting, my box on my 2009 f350 is junk. Always has been, try to adjust it and it gets tight when turning left but still loose in the middle. I want to try this as well.
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Old 11-12-2016, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highroller54 View Post
Interesting, my box on my 2009 f350 is junk. Always has been, try to adjust it and it gets tight when turning left but still loose in the middle. I want to try this as well.
Same with my oem box; What a miserable feeling.

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Old 03-12-2017, 12:32 PM
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So anyone bolt this onto a pre 2008 truck?


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Old 03-12-2017, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
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So anyone bolt this onto a pre 2008 truck?


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I'd like to know this also.
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Old 03-12-2017, 04:31 PM
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Default Steering Gear Issues [Solved]

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I'd like to know this also.

I'll be going to ford and opening a 2007 box and 2015. The only thing that doesn't look like it'll fit, is the steering shaft coming from the steering wheel, it seems the way it attaches to the box is different.




I'm on box number 3 from redhead. If this third one is crap, I'll be looking into figuring out how to mount a 2015 box if box number 3 isn't perfect. Redhead said it will not work at ALL. But looking under my 2015, mounting points are the same, Pitman arm placement is the same. Biggest difference is the size, but I'm certain it'll fit.

All I have left to check is the connectors for the lines and the mounting point for the steering shaft for the steering wheel.


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Old 04-06-2017, 06:55 AM
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Is there any updated info on this? I was talking to Redhead last night trying to figure out info about breaks on steering boxes for a Superduty in order to get a larger sector shaft (I can't keep a pitman arm tight on any 99-04 I've ever owned) and when I asked about piston sizes and he said the 10+ had a larger piston that peaked my interest..... which would explain the reduced steering effort being reported here.

If I'm going to be changing things up, might as well go to a 16 box. Anybody know about port sizes or input shaft sizes? A welder and a drill can take care of the rest.
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Is there any updated info on this? I was talking to Redhead last night trying to figure out info about breaks on steering boxes for a Superduty in order to get a larger sector shaft (I can't keep a pitman arm tight on any 99-04 I've ever owned) and when I asked about piston sizes and he said the 10+ had a larger piston that peaked my interest..... which would explain the reduced steering effort being reported here.

If I'm going to be changing things up, might as well go to a 16 box. Anybody know about port sizes or input shaft sizes? A welder and a drill can take care of the rest.
Some good info here: http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77149.

My reading of the cumulative comments within both of these threads is that it can be done. I believe, Jomax has put a 2007 box in his older truck. And, I have put a 2016 box in my 2010.

I didn't need to swap any extra parts: unbolt one box, bolt the other one in, and tweak supply and return lines a tiny bit with a tubing bender (or your hand if you don't have one).
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Old 04-06-2017, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrecisionEngine View Post
Some good info here: http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77149.

My reading of the cumulative comments within both of these threads is that it can be done. I believe, Jomax has put a 2007 box in his older truck. And, I have put a 2016 box in my 2010.

I didn't need to swap any extra parts: unbolt one box, bolt the other one in, and tweak supply and return lines a tiny bit with a tubing bender (or your hand if you don't have one).
Do you remember if the input shaft on the 2016 box was splined? Using pictures from RedHead's site for reference (can't find many detailed pics online), the 2008-2010 box should have the same shaft as the 2016 (non splined - https://www.redheadsteeringgears.com...steering-gear/), but my job 1 2008 has a splined shaft like the 2005-2007 boxes (https://www.redheadsteeringgears.com...steering-gear/).
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Old 04-06-2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Do you remember if the input shaft on the 2016 box was splined? Using pictures from RedHead's site for reference (can't find many detailed pics online), the 2008-2010 box should have the same shaft as the 2016 (non splined - https://www.redheadsteeringgears.com...steering-gear/), but my job 1 2008 has a splined shaft like the 2005-2007 boxes (https://www.redheadsteeringgears.com...steering-gear/).
I don't remember whether it was splined, but i do remember that the coupling design was the same.


I can pull the fender liner and take picture if you'd like.

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Old 04-06-2017, 07:22 PM
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What about PSC? I know they are quite pricey.
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:58 AM
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For what it is worth I was driving to Homedepot today and passed a local ford dealership. I stopped in and they have a 2016 F250 XL 4x4, so I took a look underneath. I have some pictures but the camera on my phone had a bunch of smudges on it, so they are not the best. I have my old 2008(no splines) steering gear and did a little comparison and the 2016 is much "beefer" as stated.

When comparing the two boxes it is clear that the designs(at least externally) are different. It would appear the 2016 steering box casting has been changed, as there is much more material around the lower bolt hole as well as the portion where the pitman arm shaft is. I have a lead on a 2017 box from a truck that was just wrecked on Friday however it will take a few weeks before that box is available. I know the 2017s are different as certain ones have adaptive steering and whatnot, however this was not an option on this truck. I can post the pictures if you guys want but as I have said, they are not all that good.

Last edited by Spectre32; 04-16-2017 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre32 View Post
There was a change in 2008, so unless there is another change, this gearbox would be the same. Precision, did you look at the two boxes side by side? I went to rock auto and can get a A1 Cardone for about 400 and a motocraft one is 1100, both are reman.
The steering box change in 2008 was just a change within the same box. The larger steering box arrived in 2011, with the 6.7.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:19 PM
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I wrote up my steering box swap here:
http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/sh...47#post1532047
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:22 PM
FordGuy FordGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrecisionEngine View Post
Everything else: pitman arm, rag joint, and lines (minor tweaking) , swaps directly in.
Did you swap your pitman arm ? I didn't and am now wishing I did.

The larger bolts were M16 x 120mm for my box.

I had to swap the lower steering shaft because my old box (2008) was splined. The new box (2011) uses 3 lobes.

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/sh...47#post1532047

Last edited by FordGuy; 05-17-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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