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Old 09-14-2018, 03:35 PM
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Default S475 add on compound Tow Rig

So still thinking out loud here on how to improve the towing experience of my truck. I don't have an unlimited budget but I do have the ability to fabricate pretty much anything. Compounds are something that has interested me for years and I would like a little more info on what is needed for towing at MAX.

Dmax guys love this combo for towing, one very important thing is it retains the exhaust brake. I stumbled across some older post from I think the owner of KC turbo and i think he used a piping kit from Cutting Edge Diesel. At this point I have not contacted either company seems CED became a farmer and im sure KC has better things to do than talk to me about a product he does not sell.

So does this combo of a 05 turbo and S475 work well for towing. What would be the full specifications for the S475 or whatever atmospheric turbo is suggested. What would be the smallest injector size that would work well, cc and nozzle %. It seems KC can tune this to work properly, any one else?

I really do want to try and keep things as stock as possible, Everything adds up $$$ and it seems the more things are modified the less reliable everything becomes. Any other ideas / suggestions?
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:26 PM
displacedtexan displacedtexan is offline
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The guy who owns Cutting Edge has been a farmer since before he bought Deranged...

Are you wanting compounds, or improved towing, or xxx horsepower?
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Old 09-14-2018, 11:40 PM
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I ended up running the same setup as charlie from KC. 250/75s with a stage 2 and 476. It towed amazing... Unfortunately did not make it all the way home. The route I took had some slight hills, more of a roll in the highway, but cruising at around 65 mph, even getting on the highway, I had a hard time breaking 1200 degrees. Dropping it down to 190/30s, as I borrowing a motor till I can build another, but some 225s would probably be a perfect setup. Ive been talking with him about it, trying to decide what to do with injectors, and he honestly feels that I may lose power running the 190/30 with compounds vs doing a single turbo. My truck did make 615hp with 190/30 and a stage 2, with some water meth, so once I get it put together well see what the difference is I guess.

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04 cclb IDP and TSD tunes, KC Stage 2 hi pressure, S476 atmosphere, Odawg Stage 2 ported intake, RCD Stage 1 cam, RCD lifters and pushrods, RCD 120# valve springs, ARP 625s, o ringed heads, Warren 7mm 250/100 hybrids, Strictly bowl dereete regulated return, Air Dog 2 4g, Snow stage 2 water/meth
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Old 09-15-2018, 06:51 AM
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I was thinking about the same setup using my KC S2R and possibly running 225/75s. The only issue is the piping. I think Odawg's diesel is coming out with a kit though.
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Studded with Oringed heads- Holder's 190/30 injectors- KC S2R-Odawg S3r ported intake- coolingmist meth- 6.7 fuel system with regulated return- PMF traction bars and other goodies
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:07 AM
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Trucks only job is towing our camper, its not a toy I have mustangs for that. Truck is pretty stock and the lack of head studs has limited our travels. The plan for possibly this winter is pull the cab do all updates, new oem oil cooler, oem radiator, arp & hg, odawg intake, ficm tuning. We tow a 37’ 5th wheel and truck does pretty good for towing at its max 21,500 combination. Being in pa and with the insane prices of new trucks I’m just trying to figure out if I can build a reliable 6.0 with closer to 6.7 torque for the hills in my area. In 10 years this truck has been really good to us, Awsome MPG 21 hwy,16.5 in town 13-10 towing. Only failed part being a FICM that blew a trace on the power supply side but still made it home. My keeping it stock comment was more the ability to purchase parts at local dealers / autozone. I have a heavily modified mustang but I used many OEM parts to over triple the power. Changing injectors and the cascading effect It has scares me. Ideally I would keep the stock injectors so I can keep the stock lift pump, stock filters and I don’t add a regulator that will possibly leak on me. If I could build a compound turbo that will keep EGTs stupid low add a little low end torque, while maintaining exhaust brake and stock or very small injectors I’m game. Im not sold on compounds but seems the guys using 6.4 turbos on a 6.0 with stock injectors had very good results. Its a discussion and im here learn, haven't been on the boards in probably 8 years and things have changed a little in 6.0 land.
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:22 AM
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I get where you're coming from, reliable and easy to fix are really nice. However, I had talked to charlie at kc turbos about possibly keeping stock injectors and running compounds, and was told that it is a bad idea, at least with the stage 2/476 combo. I was told it would be worse than a stock truck. I had notived that putting the atmosphere turbo on, did seem to slow thw spool up of the hi pressure, and thos would be further exaggerated by not having fuel to overcome some of the lag.

If youre set on staying relatively stock, a kc 1.5 with stock injectors and good tuning should do great.

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04 cclb IDP and TSD tunes, KC Stage 2 hi pressure, S476 atmosphere, Odawg Stage 2 ported intake, RCD Stage 1 cam, RCD lifters and pushrods, RCD 120# valve springs, ARP 625s, o ringed heads, Warren 7mm 250/100 hybrids, Strictly bowl dereete regulated return, Air Dog 2 4g, Snow stage 2 water/meth
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Old 09-15-2018, 09:53 PM
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/\ Exactly, a primary will slow down the spool of your existing turbo.

A drop in turbo upgrade and some good tunes will make it a different truck. But still simple, and parts everywhere.
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:15 PM
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I don't think that you will be able to make a 6.0 tow like a 6.7 as easy as you think just from the factory they make another 375 ft lbs of torque at 400 less rpm. adding air will only move that power curve up farther in the rpm range I think
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt92idi View Post
I don't think that you will be able to make a 6.0 tow like a 6.7 as easy as you think just from the factory they make another 375 ft lbs of torque at 400 less rpm. adding air will only move that power curve up farther in the rpm range I think
I saw a couple of graphs lately and compounds always made both HP and torque come on sooner, in a properly set up tow compounds. The turbo set ups being the only difference.

If he really want's 6.7 power AND to tow, he'll need injectors and a properly set up turbo system. The great thing about compounds is they can make a much as a big single but w/o the lag.

I wouldn't worry about trying to match the 6.7 in both respects. Stud it, get good tunes, run the low power tune w/ a 1.5 to keep turbo lag as low as possible and call it good in the engine bay. Simple, not a hp monster but doable w/o compromising reliability.
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05 original factory head gaskets and TTY bolts until 302k Did ARP 1 bolt at at time@ 250ftlbs, no egr Redhead steering gear KC 63.5mm... factory exhaust w/ no meow/factory intake all factory stuff, rancho 9K's adj, PM w/ questions
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post
I saw a couple of graphs lately and compounds always made both HP and torque come on sooner, in a properly set up tow compounds. The turbo set ups being the only difference.



If he really want's 6.7 power AND to tow, he'll need injectors and a properly set up turbo system. The great thing about compounds is they can make a much as a big single but w/o the lag.



I wouldn't worry about trying to match the 6.7 in both respects. Stud it, get good tunes, run the low power tune w/ a 1.5 to keep turbo lag as low as possible and call it good in the engine bay. Simple, not a hp monster but doable w/o compromising reliability.


Iíll know here soon. Iím mid build with my 363/476 set up. I ran a 62 as a single with 225s for a while so I still have a bunch of data from that.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:22 PM
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Power driven diesel has some YT vids and in one they had their graphs from a turbo only type swap. 2 single charger swaps then the compound set up. Same tune, same truck. The graphs, to include time to HP/Tq curve was interesting to see. IIRC when they used the large atmo in the compound was the same as the large single, the compound set up still made just a few more hp/tq but it was almost a 10 sec delay on the dyno. The compounds was about a few seconds and the big one took a LOT longer to get their due to it being laggy.

Compounds can be complicated but I think if you are willing to do the work, IMHO, it's the way to go if you can squeeze them in. My 6.4 was SO much more responsive compared to my 7.3 and my 6.0 even in stock form.

Good luck make sure to post pics.
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05 original factory head gaskets and TTY bolts until 302k Did ARP 1 bolt at at time@ 250ftlbs, no egr Redhead steering gear KC 63.5mm... factory exhaust w/ no meow/factory intake all factory stuff, rancho 9K's adj, PM w/ questions
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:28 PM
displacedtexan displacedtexan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post
Power driven diesel has some YT vids and in one they had their graphs from a turbo only type swap. 2 single charger swaps then the compound set up. Same tune, same truck. The graphs, to include time to HP/Tq curve was interesting to see. IIRC when they used the large atmo in the compound was the same as the large single, the compound set up still made just a few more hp/tq but it was almost a 10 sec delay on the dyno. The compounds was about a few seconds and the big one took a LOT longer to get their due to it being laggy.

Compounds can be complicated but I think if you are willing to do the work, IMHO, it's the way to go if you can squeeze them in. My 6.4 was SO much more responsive compared to my 7.3 and my 6.0 even in stock form.

Good luck make sure to post pics.
Those clowns are idiots and hacks.

Same tune is a lousy way to compare single/twins. Especially on a 12v...
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:01 PM
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Those clowns are idiots and hacks.

Same tune is a lousy way to compare single/twins. Especially on a 12v...

I don't like some of his stuff but his compound set up I was referencing was for the 6.7 cummins. Point being, same 6.7 only the turbos were changed out.

LOl, I know. Last I knew, there wasn't a way to add a "tune" to a mechanically injected 12v. Fuel pump and starter are the only electrical connections that are intertwined on the 12v that I recall.

Him saying 1500 on the egt is "ok" makes me think he's maybe a little too optimistic w/ his tuning parameters.
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05 original factory head gaskets and TTY bolts until 302k Did ARP 1 bolt at at time@ 250ftlbs, no egr Redhead steering gear KC 63.5mm... factory exhaust w/ no meow/factory intake all factory stuff, rancho 9K's adj, PM w/ questions
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post
I don't like some of his stuff but his compound set up I was referencing was for the 6.7 cummins. Point being, same 6.7 only the turbos were changed out.

LOl, I know. Last I knew, there wasn't a way to add a "tune" to a mechanically injected 12v. Fuel pump and starter are the only electrical connections that are intertwined on the 12v that I recall.

Him saying 1500 on the egt is "ok" makes me think he's maybe a little too optimistic w/ his tuning parameters.
Just because it doesn't have a computer doesn't mean that you don't tune it!

Stock they have a mechanical lift pump.
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:22 PM
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Just because it doesn't have a computer doesn't mean that you don't tune it!

Stock they have a mechanical lift pump.
oh thats the "walmart bag/air filter tune" i hear the C-bags mention

I"m guessing thats why w/ "HO" trucks are using electric fuel pumps to keep the p-pump healthy. Twins on a 12v is on my mind as my 6.0 is at 300+ but running good. I figure it is worth more running than dead so I may start collecting parts next summer and sell off the running 6.0 motor with like new injectors when it's swap time.
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05 original factory head gaskets and TTY bolts until 302k Did ARP 1 bolt at at time@ 250ftlbs, no egr Redhead steering gear KC 63.5mm... factory exhaust w/ no meow/factory intake all factory stuff, rancho 9K's adj, PM w/ questions
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Old 09-27-2018, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post
oh thats the "walmart bag/air filter tune" i hear the C-bags mention

I"m guessing thats why w/ "HO" trucks are using electric fuel pumps to keep the p-pump healthy. Twins on a 12v is on my mind as my 6.0 is at 300+ but running good. I figure it is worth more running than dead so I may start collecting parts next summer and sell off the running 6.0 motor with like new injectors when it's swap time.
They use them because it's cool. A healthy stock pump will support 500hp.

That's a solid plan.
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Old 09-28-2018, 07:52 PM
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Interesting to know. W/ some of the PSD years using a low pressure lift pump I figured to use that or even stick w/ the 6.0 and use a regulated return to bleed of anything over 20lbs. I'm too stupid to stay stock on a 12v if I have a chance to add any hp.
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05 original factory head gaskets and TTY bolts until 302k Did ARP 1 bolt at at time@ 250ftlbs, no egr Redhead steering gear KC 63.5mm... factory exhaust w/ no meow/factory intake all factory stuff, rancho 9K's adj, PM w/ questions
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:57 AM
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P-pumps like pressure. 50+

And they are lots of fun!
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Old 09-29-2018, 11:56 PM
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Ok good to know
On the Cumminsforum.com they have some neat conversions, a few of them F250's. Trying to learn.
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05 original factory head gaskets and TTY bolts until 302k Did ARP 1 bolt at at time@ 250ftlbs, no egr Redhead steering gear KC 63.5mm... factory exhaust w/ no meow/factory intake all factory stuff, rancho 9K's adj, PM w/ questions
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Old 10-01-2018, 11:42 AM
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CompD info would help you more.

It's not going to be spelled out as much, but it's a lot more accurate. Lol
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