2006 6.0 block trouble

DEEZUZ

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I'm assuming like the cam bearings, these are supposed to be pulled in rather than hammered in?
 

Hartwig

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I don't want to hammer them in at all, nor do I want to press them in, so I want to shrink the segmented bearings before inserting them. I think the loads from the piston pin are much higher than the cam bearings. Therefore I do not want to press in the segmented bearings .
 

6.0 Tech

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I don't want to hammer them in at all, nor do I want to press them in, so I want to shrink the segmented bearings before inserting them. I think the loads from the piston pin are much higher than the cam bearings. Therefore I do not want to press in the segmented bearings .

I’d also probably throw the rod in the oven for a bit. That should enlarge the little end ever so slightly, and along with shrinking the bushing, it should more or less fall in


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Hartwig

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still no reply from Anthony ( Super Duty Service LLC ), that is a pity (n)
Today the pistons (0.030" oversize and 0.010" destroked) finally arrived at my forwarder in NH and I was able to get the shipping started along with the connecting rods and all the odds and ends.
The stuff should be here in a week, the unknown is the "specialists" at German customs who make such shipments take what feels like forever and make them more expensive anyway.
I hope that the shipment will be here in a week.

In the meantime I have already weighed the original connecting rods to see the difference to the overhauled ones (original Ford parts) later.


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webb06

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I had contacted Anthony via Facebook, obviously he currently has no homepage via which I could reach him. Unfortunately, he did not answer.
I will build the tool to change the bushings.
Liquid nitrogen is unfortunately very expensive and not easy to get.
Does anyone have a link to Anthony's video?

Last I saw on YouTube he was in the process of moving to a new shop. So he might be out shop for a while.

Just searched his videos. Look at “mikes refresh job” from about 2 years back and it shows the tools to do rod bushings


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Hartwig

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Thanks. I already have the tooling ready for this job, if you want I can post some pictures to go with it.
Obviously he uses the segmented bushings. My question to him would have been in which orientation he install the segmented position. But I will see when my part delivery arrives, I have ordered new connecting rods as well.
If I understood correctly, he just puts the bushings in the fridge to shrink. Did I understand that correctly?

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6.0 Tech

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Thanks. I already have the tooling ready for this job, if you want I can post some pictures to go with it.
Obviously he uses the segmented bushings. My question to him would have been in which orientation he install the segmented position. But I will see when my part delivery arrives, I have ordered new connecting rods as well.
If I understood correctly, he just puts the bushings in the fridge to shrink. Did I understand that correctly?

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If you ordered new rods, they should come with the bushings installed. Are you going to remove the bushings from the new rods and put others in, or put new bushings in the old rods?


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Hartwig

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If you ordered new rods, they should come with the bushings installed. Are you going to remove the bushings from the new rods and put others in, or put new bushings in the old rods?


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I go both ways. The bushings in the old rods are not segmented. I would prefer to install these. Apparently these are no longer available and only the segmented bushings are available. I have now ordered bushings AND rods to see which bushings are installed in the ordered rods. If it should be the segmented bushings, I then see at which point / orientation the segmentation sits.
If I install the bushings myself and then fine bore them, I can also reduce the bore spacing a little and I no longer have to machine the pistons if the piston protrusion is too large.
(For this rebuild I need 0.030"oversize pistons, 0.010" destroked. )
 

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By doing that, you would alter the pivot point of the pistons, i.e., bringing the wrist pin higher towards the top of the piston. You would also reduce the thickness of the bushing at the highest loaded region.

It also would depend on the thickness of the plating; they look steel-backed, so 0.010" could go through the plating if you could offset even that. You may only have 0.001-0.002" undersize for honing.

I suspect the segment alignment would be at 90º to the centerline of the connecting rod. It will be interesting what they do.
 
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Hartwig

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I am still waiting for the parts out of USA. It is always the same problem. The parts are quickly from the U.S. here in Germany at customs, customs takes an eternity for the processing.
I wanted to go on vacation, but I have to wait for the delivery with the connecting rods and all the other things.
I have here a pic of a connecting rod bearing where you can clearly see that the piston bore is not vertical to the crankshaft. On the length of the cylinder height, the bores were drilled in 2006 up to 0.3mm / 0,0118" at an angle from the factory.

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DEEZUZ

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Yes that thrust throw is definitely off.. Again I have never ever heard of this ever. Wow
 

TooManyToys

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I've been going back through peoples threads on engine disassembly and not having found bearing shells that look like this. The closest pattern to this was my mis installed con rod shell.
 

Hartwig

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I have also worked on many engines, I had not seen anything like this before either.
This engine I had opened because of a catastrophic EGR cooler damage.
The only consolation for the truck owner is that there would have been problems with the engine at some point anyway due to the one-sided load and thus the chips/abrasion of the bearing shells (Currently, however, nothing of this was yet to be found in the oil/engine).
The question for me is what to do with an engine if I were to experience something like this again (the different values of piston protrusions and rod bearing shells worn on one side).
I don't think the big rebuilders pay attention to anything like this.
 

TooManyToys

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I have also worked on many engines, I had not seen anything like this before either.
This engine I had opened because of a catastrophic EGR cooler damage.
The only consolation for the truck owner is that there would have been problems with the engine at some point anyway due to the one-sided load and thus the chips/abrasion of the bearing shells (Currently, however, nothing of this was yet to be found in the oil/engine).
The question for me is what to do with an engine if I were to experience something like this again (the different values of piston protrusions and rod bearing shells worn on one side).
I don't think the big rebuilders pay attention to anything like this.


6.0 blocks are so plentiful in the US, Hartwig; I'd just get another.

No, I'm afraid I have to disagree. It depends on the competency of the shop and the equipment they want to invest in. The CNC equipment for the last decade can easily correct for something like this. RMC is one of the CNC manufacturers that sell better equipment. Rottler, also. But again, it depends if the shop wants to use the engine block Datum and the crank bore to reference the cylinders and decks. And if they have the blueprint specs for the engine. To me, that's the most important thing. But, again, I'm just a home rebuilder of one 6.0 engine, so I'm coming from the experience of long ago and other engines.

Through my YT travels, I could point you to some equipment videos from Rottler. Unfortunately, I've not looked at enough sites to show a direct video that shows the setup. This video is typical of their CNC videos from what I've seen, indicating off the existing oil pan deck, bore, and head deck, then using a boring bar and flycutter. This method would straighten the decks and bores to the crank centerline since they are mounting off a crank bar. It's good but not ideal as it would not locate the ideal cylinder bores.



This is one of my favorite small machining shops for videos. I've gone through many of his videos, and from my experience of being in a shop about 50 years ago and shops I have used, he does it right. I won't post all the videos you could watch. But he is referencing off the Datum in the block (when available), crank bore, and everything else. And he has the blueprint information from the CNC supplier.








 
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Hartwig

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The OE rod I have here is similar to yours. Not a segmented bushing.
I made an interesting discovery today Jack. The piston pin bushings in the rods are also segmented on the original rods, you just see it very bad. If you press the bushings out of the rod, you can see the segmentation better on the outside.
I'll make a video tomorrow of de- and installation of the bushings.
The segmented area is under a 45° orientation inserted into the rod

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TooManyToys

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You're not kidding. I had to play with different light sources and angles to see that in my rod. It's there, in the same location. Not where I expected it would be placed.
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Hartwig

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Rod bushing vid follows tomorrow.
It was an odyssey until I got the other pistons (0.030" over, 0.010" destroked) for the engine with the EGR cooler damage. The customs made problems although everything was described perfectly and all papers were filled out correctly.
Finally, after hours of phone calls and emails, the parts arrived, but the jackass who packed the shipment at my forwarder in NH can't read. I had specifically noted ALL items to be left protected in the original packaging box and shipped that way.
But the guy has unpacked everything and put everything loose in a package which was sent to me in Germany. How the packages are handled by these "professionals", we all know.
In short version: the pistons have damage on the edges.
I do not know yet if I can use them.

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The connecting rods I bought from a major Ford parts dealer 7 of them are in good condition, one looks like it was worked on by a drunk Mexican on the sanding band.
The edges on the piston pin bushing are razor sharp on the one connecting rod.

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I weighed them all, the weights are reasonably equal.

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the weights of the old connecting rods (I did not weigh the old pistons because they are damaged)

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the weights of the new pistons and connecting rods

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Hartwig

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I made a short video of what removing and installing the piston pin bushings might look like. I am not a fan of hydraulic presses for this type of work. However, the bushings should be shrunk as much as possible, because the soft material on the outside of the bushing is easily worn away when pressed into the connecting rods. With liquid nitrogen, the bushings should fall into the bore on the connecting rod almost by themselves.


 
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