imelmo
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Got this off of FaceBook from "Senior Master Technician". He's got a lot of good vids on YouTube also. He's always got a lot of good info:
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6.0 Oil Cooler Failures
- Thread starter imelmo
- Start date
JAP
In the Brig (Banned)
Looked like sand on the ones I've done...
91turbogsx
Active member
I've pulled out a bunch of "sand" on a bunch of 6.4's as well. Stuff can't be too good for a cooling system.
PowerStrokeEnginuities
New member
Casting sand likes to syat in there pretty good.
Strictly Diesel
Active member
Are you sure that it's casting sand and not silicate fallout from improperly maintained coolant?
An interesting point was made to me the other day. It's sad, but it's probably the best explanation about why things have gone the way they have that I've heard. "Cost of Ownership" has become a really important statistic for auto manufacturers to supply about their new vehicles. With the cost of oil rising, engine tolerances tightening and requiring better quality oils, etc...how do you reduce the cost of ownership? One way, extend maintenance intervals and remove previously recommended maintenance.
I don't remember the specific vehicle, but the above 100% explains why a vehicle that has a 5000 mile old change in a 2006 owners manual has a 7500 miles oil change interval in the 2007...with the exact same engine (no changes). The manufacturer has spread the cost of the oil and filter across 50% more miles than the previous year, reducing the cost of ownership. This is also why you see extended intervals on other components and some items with no recommended maintenance.
Another perfect example...100000 mile coolant in a Ford 6.0L. Really Ford!?!?!? Did something magically change that eliminated cavitation errosion, acidity, silicate fallout and other issues related to running coolant in a diesel for too long without proper maintenance? Nope, but telling you that you have to flush is periodically and put an additive in it increases the cost of ownership.
I'm sorry, but anyone paying a premium for a new diesel engine should be expecting the cost of maintaining it to be higher. These trucks hold more oil and have larger filters because they are built for a purpose. They cost more to make because they parts are larger, and subjected to more stresses than your average small block chevy. Anyone expecting the maintenance of their diesel to be the same cost and requirements as servicing their small block chevy is not being reasonable...and Ford shouldn't have short changed customers by trying to appease them with lower cost of ownership numbers on a truck they paid a premium to get with a diesel engine...they should have been honest and told them how to keep it properly maintained from the get go!
Sorry for the rant, but we deal with this every day and it's sad!
An interesting point was made to me the other day. It's sad, but it's probably the best explanation about why things have gone the way they have that I've heard. "Cost of Ownership" has become a really important statistic for auto manufacturers to supply about their new vehicles. With the cost of oil rising, engine tolerances tightening and requiring better quality oils, etc...how do you reduce the cost of ownership? One way, extend maintenance intervals and remove previously recommended maintenance.
I don't remember the specific vehicle, but the above 100% explains why a vehicle that has a 5000 mile old change in a 2006 owners manual has a 7500 miles oil change interval in the 2007...with the exact same engine (no changes). The manufacturer has spread the cost of the oil and filter across 50% more miles than the previous year, reducing the cost of ownership. This is also why you see extended intervals on other components and some items with no recommended maintenance.
Another perfect example...100000 mile coolant in a Ford 6.0L. Really Ford!?!?!? Did something magically change that eliminated cavitation errosion, acidity, silicate fallout and other issues related to running coolant in a diesel for too long without proper maintenance? Nope, but telling you that you have to flush is periodically and put an additive in it increases the cost of ownership.
I'm sorry, but anyone paying a premium for a new diesel engine should be expecting the cost of maintaining it to be higher. These trucks hold more oil and have larger filters because they are built for a purpose. They cost more to make because they parts are larger, and subjected to more stresses than your average small block chevy. Anyone expecting the maintenance of their diesel to be the same cost and requirements as servicing their small block chevy is not being reasonable...and Ford shouldn't have short changed customers by trying to appease them with lower cost of ownership numbers on a truck they paid a premium to get with a diesel engine...they should have been honest and told them how to keep it properly maintained from the get go!
Sorry for the rant, but we deal with this every day and it's sad!
lubeowner
New member
I agree, look at what ends up on the coolant bottle on a puking truck. It also seems to me that most vehicles that have blown oil cooler have a blown egr cooler or had one replace by the dealer in the past. I feel that the coolant break down is all caused by the egr cooler super heating the coolant. It also seems to me that once you delete the egr cooler and get a fresh oil cooler in there the failure rate of the oil cooler drops to almost none.
PowerStrokeEnginuities
New member
i agree with the silicate fallout, but ive seen low mileage PSDs with sand also.
I will not say completely its the leftovers in the block, most of the oil cooler I pull out have a sludge in them that blocks the coolant flow, and it is NOT gritty... I strongly believe, had these truck came from factory with HD coolant, we wouldn't have nearly as many failures with the oil cooler. I see this is as the Gold's fault more than anything.... Has anyone else ever seen a Duramax with silicate fallout? Cause I sure havent. And the Dmax runs hotter than the 6.0 does.
Strictly Diesel
Active member
Not sure I would agree. Not sure what you are meaning specifically by "HD", but if you're talking about the stuff used in OTR trucks, those products were developed for different circumstances.
Lets say that the CAT coolant people like to talk about was developed for 150,000 mile replacement and use in an OTR truck. How does it's use in a 6.0L differ from it's use in an OTR truck?
1. How long does it take (in time) for an OTR truck to go 150k miles compared to an "average" 6.0L pickup truck?
2. During that time, which one will be heat cycled more times (shut down and fully cooled off to fully warmed up and back to cool again) and what does the heat cycling do to the coolant?
3. Which one is more likely to be exposed to combustion gasses (considering the good old 4-bolt per cylinder configuration of the 6.0L and the fact that most other engines are 6-bolt per cylinder)?
There's really nothing wrong with the gold coolant, IF it is properly maintained. The problem is that Ford didn't publish realistic maintenance intervals and service recommendations (pH checking, additives, etc). This is happening with many vehicles from EVERY manufacturer and it's all being done to drive down the "perceived" cost of ownership. If they can say "you don't need to touch xyz for 100k miles", that costs less than saying "check coolant pH every oil change ($0.30 test strip) and use additive as necessary (also cheap)...flush and replace coolant when test strip shows depleted glycol level". If they can say "this truck costs $0.15 per mile to own and our competitor costs $0.18 per mile to own"...they will and they'll use it to sell you the truck.
It's total BS...what the hell happens to the cost of ownership when you add in a trip to the shop for EGR and Oil coolers? Problem is, they were gambling that the trucks would make it to the 100k mile warranty or that they would get to void warranties for "modifications" to get out of covering the costs...which stuck a bunch of people with stiff repair bills. It's NOT the fault of the gold coolant...it's the penny pinchers and marketing people being involved in parts of the process they shouldn't be!
RescueF250
New member
Doesn't slapping on a coolant filtration system helped remove the casting sand ? 7 yrs I've had my truck never had an oil cooler issue. Ill know more here in 2 weeks when I rip mine apart again.
Strictly Diesel
Active member
So you are suggesting that "HD" coolant is perfect and solves all problems? No maintenance, no oil cooler failure, no crap in the cooling system...just perfect "life is goodness"? What kind of warranty or guarantee do you give with that?
If it's actually "casting sand". On the other hand, if you don't maintain the pH of your coolant and you get "silicate fallout", much of what you will find in your filter is actually supposed to still be in the coolant, protecting the engine from cavitation erosion. Silicate Fallout looks just like dirt or sand.
RescueF250
New member
Dennis
Let's say its not casting sand, I know we have all seen the crap that comes out of those filters, I know you have so have I, what do you think it is ? If that's what's getting in the cooler cooler creating the mud like stuff could it actually be the sand or something else.
Let's say its not casting sand, I know we have all seen the crap that comes out of those filters, I know you have so have I, what do you think it is ? If that's what's getting in the cooler cooler creating the mud like stuff could it actually be the sand or something else.
Strictly Diesel
Active member
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