Blown HG, o-ringed and studs...

[cRaZy8]

Let's tear er down and see!

What would be your next step? I am thinking if once I get it all apart if nothing is super obvious, check the deck again for flatness. And use long board style sanding approach and give it some more grit.

Someone mentioned .002 for the deck clearance. I always thought that was across each cylinder and allowed .004 for the length of the bank of cylinders?

 

[DEEZUZ]

I'm ripping it apart and looking for a blown out area, like I said probably between gasket and block. If that's the case I would have to strip the block and send it to be decked.

 

[cRaZy8]

180k short block. Do replace it?

Got a quote from KDD when i ordered heads.
They wanted $5k delivered with a cam and coated pistons etc. Wonder how fast they could send one if I need it ��

 

[DEEZUZ]

All depends on the bank roll.

I like doing oil samples before big work to see if it's even worth it.

 

[cRaZy8]

I do samples every oil change. Blackstone Labs. Internals have been the same for nearly the last 100k. Only changes are typically fuel % due to weather. Longer warm ups and idle in winter etc.

 

[bismic]

You might consider running an uncompensated cylinder contribution test or a cylinder leakdown test.
it just might give you some indication of which head is the worst.

 

[cRaZy8]

Well shes in the shop and half way ready to pull the cab. Ill have it up by Wednesday morning (working before my 8AM shift starts).
Plan is to have it torn down by Saturday AM.
Fingers crossed...

 

[Petro]

Did you do any flushing with water? If so, you can not get back to 50% with the pre-mix stuff due to how much coolant that will always stay in the block. Anyway, it probably isn't the issue, but just something to think about.

The water would literally have nothing to do with it. I've run straight water multiple times for short periods without any problems. I cant understand why you guys would spend 3 hours cleaning a deck when it can literally be done in 25 minutes without any trouble. If your taking off block material with a rotary scuff pad, then you're obviously getting extremely aggressive. Not even sure how it'd be possible but I guess some people can **** up a wet dream.

 

[cRaZy8]

The water would literally have nothing to do with it. I've run straight water multiple times for short periods without any problems. I cant understand why you guys would spend 3 hours cleaning a deck when it can literally be done in 25 minutes without any trouble. If your taking off block material with a rotary scuff pad, then you're obviously getting extremely aggressive. Not even sure how it'd be possible but I guess some people can **** up a wet dream.

I 100% agree wit the block prep. I resurface a lot of heads, blocks, and adapter plates at work. Aluminum nonetheless. Rotary tools are fine if you know how to use them. Like you said, 30 min and both sides are spotless.

 

[DEEZUZ]

Meh...

I'll just sit back and enjoy my literal hundreds of head jobs with ZERO comebacks LOL.

I get paid by the hour so no complaints here.

 

[bismic]

The water would literally have nothing to do with it. I've run straight water multiple times for short periods without any problems. I cant understand why you guys would spend 3 hours cleaning a deck when it can literally be done in 25 minutes without any trouble. If your taking off block material with a rotary scuff pad, then you're obviously getting extremely aggressive. Not even sure how it'd be possible but I guess some people can **** up a wet dream.

I only asked about water flushing to see if he was less than 50% coolant concentration. Even though it has nothing to do with HIS heads leaking, it is something to take note of. You can not get to a 50% coolant concentration after a water flush with 50% coolant. I agree that you can run lower coolant concentrations, but the degas pressure does go up somewhat as the coolant is diluted (water will boil in the EGR cooler). Corrosion goes up also. Anyway, enough of off-topic discussion.

As I posted earlier (post #7), I still think it is due to aggressive block prep ... even though the OP does not think so. Only more troubleshooting will reveal the facts.

 

[Petro]

I only asked about water flushing to see if he was less than 50% coolant concentration. Even though it has nothing to do with HIS heads leaking, it is something to take note of. You can not get to a 50% coolant concentration after a water flush with 50% coolant. I agree that you can run lower coolant concentrations, but the degas pressure does go up somewhat as the coolant is diluted (water will boil in the EGR cooler). Corrosion goes up also. Anyway, enough of off-topic discussion.

As I posted earlier (post #7), I still think it is due to aggressive block prep ... even though the OP does not think so. Only more troubleshooting will reveal the facts.

Awww I see. I thought you were trying to correlate the puking with the mixture. My bad.

 

[tomlin]

It could be that the deck is warped but its not from that type of wheel. Those are pretty safe. Those yellow finger roloc discs are fantastic. The fact that it did it with O-rings would lead me to believe that you have a very shallow combustion notch on the block. It will be from a cylinder to a coolant port. You will need to get a good straight edge and feeler gauges and check it out.

 

[cRaZy8]

Got the cab up this morning before work. Stayed late after work and got the heads off.

Found 2 spots where combustion was pushing into a water jacket. Leak was between the block and the gasket. No leak between the o rings and gasket.

I used my buddies Snap On digital torque wrench to take the nuts off. It shows the deload torque spec. It was almost laughable at some of the numbers I got. The highest was 148ftlbs. Most were between. 115 and 135.

So when I torqued the heads, I used that same digital torque wrench. Never used one before. My buddies shop I am doing the work in is an auto repair shop. It's his wrench. It retains the last torque setting in the memory. The last spec used was 170ft lbs. That's the spec that I put in, that's the spec for the Extreme Studs.

There was no way those studs were at 170ftlbs. Either that digital wrench is a piece of crap and it's completely off calibration....or something is up with those studs.leading to believe the wrench is junk. Hard to say.

I used the exact lube they called for, used it on all the threads, washers, nut flange etc.

Gonna call the stud company in the morning. Very hesitant to put them back in that's for sure.

 

[webb06]

Got the cab up this morning before work. Stayed late after work and got the heads off.

Found 2 spots where combustion was pushing into a water jacket. Leak was between the block and the gasket. No leak between the o rings and gasket.

I used my buddies Snap On digital torque wrench to take the nuts off. It shows the deload torque spec. It was almost laughable at some of the numbers I got. The highest was 148ftlbs. Most were between. 115 and 135.

So when I torqued the heads, I used that same digital torque wrench. Never used one before. My buddies shop I am doing the work in is an auto repair shop. It's his wrench. It retains the last torque setting in the memory. The last spec used was 170ft lbs. That's the spec that I put in, that's the spec for the Extreme Studs.

There was no way those studs were at 170ftlbs. Either that digital wrench is a piece of crap and it's completely off calibration....or something is up with those studs.leading to believe the wrench is junk. Hard to say.

I used the exact lube they called for, used it on all the threads, washers, nut flange etc.

Gonna call the stud company in the morning. Very hesitant to put them back in that's for sure.

Arp only. Maybe even use the 625’s this go around


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[co04cobra]

Wait. What are Extreme studs? I missed that.

 

[cRaZy8]

Extreme Studs, they make a high strength H-13 stud/nut/washer.


Made some calls this morning, pretty sure I found out why they studs felt like they had no torque on them when I took them off. Which is pretty obviously why the gaskets let go.

Talked to Jeff from Extreme Studs, he asked what I used for a lube on the studs. Exactly what the directions said, CRC Moly Engine Assembly Lube Part #SL3331 I believe.

He said well, where did you get those studs from? Because I havent had that in my directions in about 4 or 5 years.
I got them from Mike at No Limit Fab.
He said Mike hasnt bought studs in at least 5 yrs.
He said with the old torque sequence, and that lube, the studs would not torque accurately.

That makes me pretty pissed honestly.
Cost me countless hours of labor and a decent chunk of cash at this point.

 

[Jonnydime]

Extreme Studs, they make a high strength H-13 stud/nut/washer.


Made some calls this morning, pretty sure I found out why they studs felt like they had no torque on them when I took them off. Which is pretty obviously why the gaskets let go.

Talked to Jeff from Extreme Studs, he asked what I used for a lube on the studs. Exactly what the directions said, CRC Moly Engine Assembly Lube Part #SL3331 I believe.

He said well, where did you get those studs from? Because I havent had that in my directions in about 4 or 5 years.
I got them from Mike at No Limit Fab.
He said Mike hasnt bought studs in at least 5 yrs.
He said with the old torque sequence, and that lube, the studs would not torque accurately.

That makes me pretty pissed honestly.
Cost me countless hours of labor and a decent chunk of cash at this point.

So the old torque sequence with the specified lube was wrong? Still seems like it's their fault.

 

[cRaZy8]

The torque sequence correct, but the final value was increased a touch.
The main thing is the lube was incorrect.
Yes, agreed, its the stud manufacturers fault.
But the studs were purchased through one of their authorized dealers.
If the dealer is selling that product, and kept very old stock, they should be the one stepping up.
Its not the manufacturers fault the dealer had stock they didnt sell in timely manner.

 

[Sixfoh]

The problem lies with whoever ignored/dismissed the issue. Manufacturers fault if they did not recall a defective product, be it material composition or incorrect instructions. Another course of action would be to supply authorized dealers with updated instructions to include with sales. If the authorized dealer ignored the recall/update and still sold defective products, it would then be their responsibility. Thats how id look at the situation anyways.