dies when put in gear

[mandkole]

Been thinking about this a little since the truck died once last week. Last week it died on a cold start up when it was put into reverse. It runs normal idle rpm, but has a noticable load on the motor when in gear (EGT is also 50F higher than when in park or neutral). The converter has always been tighter than any PSD stocker Ive driven or other automatics (PO was told the BTS is like this).

The tuning also runs more ICP than my OBS (850 @ 14%) and its always had an issue if you crack the throttle and release, it will fall below typical idle and shudder before coming back up to idle. Often wondered if this and the gear change issue were related... otherwise, its a fun truck to drive and works perfect.

Thoughts?

 

[ToMang07]

Been thinking about this a little since the truck died once last week. Last week it died on a cold start up when it was put into reverse. It runs normal idle rpm, but has a noticable load on the motor when in gear (EGT is also 50F higher than when in park or neutral). The converter has always been tighter than any PSD stocker Ive driven or other automatics (PO was told the BTS is like this).

The tuning also runs more ICP than my OBS (850 @ 14%) and its always had an issue if you crack the throttle and release, it will fall below typical idle and shudder before coming back up to idle. Often wondered if this and the gear change issue were related... otherwise, its a fun truck to drive and works perfect.

Thoughts?

Sounds like the TC is stuck in lockup.

 

[mandkole]

No, it just has a good firm tug like a tight converter. Now, if I manually leave the TC locked it will die at a stop just like a manual.

This is more about how the truck behaves when cold. If I warm it up more, it wont do it and if its hot, it wont do it. Its also acting more and more like its got a few dead GPs as well. Thats a winter project

This was just an observation and Im curious what others have seen with their converters.

 

[dthompson]

I've heard of them dying in reverse with a cracked/loose trans filter. Just a thought.

 

[Tom S]

I've heard of them dying in reverse with a cracked/loose trans filter. Just a thought.

What I was gonna post.

 

[01PSD]

I've heard of them dying in reverse with a cracked/loose trans filter. Just a thought.

How does that work?

 

[mandkole]

It would likely die in the right situation if put in drive also, it just happened to do it in reverse. The first shift of the day seems to take it closest to dying. It does have an inline filter near the cooler that I've planned to take out ( BTS recommendation).

 

[neverkickn]

Mine will lug sometimes too on the first shift. It has never stalled before but it has come close. I would guess that it is something you will have to resolve in tuning.

 

[ghohouston]

Fwiw, my truck did the exact same thing a few times this past winter... it was always on cold starts and in reverse. I always blamed it on the oil being so thick while cold having some sort of effect on the hpo system, but who the hell knows

 

[neverkickn]

Fwiw, my truck did the exact same thing a few times this past winter... it was always on cold starts and in reverse. I always blamed it on the oil being so thick while cold having some sort of effect on the hpo system, but who the hell knows

Seems more likely that the fluid coupling in the converter is a little stronger with cold oil. Essentially lowering the stall on the converter. Of course it is quite possible that I have no idea what the hell I am talking about.

 

[Dieselboy.]

As far as it dieing Im not 100%

But when you let off and it falls off to a lower then idle speed. Thats most likely IPR. Mine did(and still does a tad) Mine got progressively worse until it would literally die at almost every stop light. Pulled the IPR and it was plugged with o-ring material. Fully disassembled it. Cleaned it, and put the same IPR in. Every once in a while it will drop a bit but its fine most the time.

Also could be tuning, minimum IPR value comes to mind as mine had to be adjusted severely to get the truck to work with the gen3.
However your truck idling at such a high ICP at idle seems maybe its a sensor IMHO

 

[ghohouston]

You all make valid points... did everyones do it just idling in reverse once you let off the break?

 

[mandkole]

To me, this issue is more about how the motor responds to the load when cold, not a trans issue. Its almost like it floods out or the breath is knocked out of it. Its fairly hazy when cold as well for the first couple minutes. The converter load is there all the time when in gear, hot or cold, and cold fuel haze increases when the load is put on.

Its been live tuned by Bill, but lets face it, the tuning is done when the oil is hot. My logic says that the higher ICP was put there to support IP/nozzle atomization at lower fuel rate, but I don't fully understand the strategies yet for dealing with larger nozzles. I've also wondered why the motor stumbles below idle speed after the motor decelerates during a quick rev in neutral or park. That also seems to be a tuning/ICP management issue.

Keep the thoughts coming..

 

[ghohouston]

Well as far as the smoky cold starts, are your glow plugs and relay working? Last winter 7 of my 8 stopped working, and it made for some really smoky starts. I startee using my block heater though, which worked nicely

 

[907DAVE]

Its caused by a lack of flow through the cooler (plugged inline filter or the cooler itself), low trans fluid level or filter issue. If that all checks out you have an internal pump issue.

 

[mandkole]

I plan to remove the inline filter, although Im doing it more because BTS preferred that it wasnt there. Perhaps we'll see something with that. However, Im seeing nothing from a trans performance or fluid temp to indicate that there isnt an adequate flow loop. Keeping the fluid cool is never an issue and the trans is very responsive to shifter input in fwd or reverse.

Im leaning more to an issue with the load sensitivity of the motor or tuning when at idle. The motor should settle back to an even idle immediately after revving it, but it always falls below idle speed and chugs for a split second before recovering to idle speed. Its died only once recently and only when the cylinders are very cold (having run only 1-2 mins). Its definitely more sensitive when cold.

If anyone else has more thoughts on this or similar experiences, keep em comin...

 

[CSIPSD]

I'd leave the trans filter if I were you. Its been there for over 6-8 years without issue... Its not causing the issue.

My first Suncoast TC was super tight and would do this from time to time. Sent it back and had it loosened a bit.

 

[ghohouston]

Come to think of it, I dont remember my truck ever doing this before I installed the bts/ p.i. converter... csi, you may just be on to something

 

[mandkole]

Yeah Joe, I keep forgetting you know this truck also. The filter thing made sense if it caused any pressure drop. But it does not seem like a fluid management issue and just that the converter is a little tight. After the fluid moves in the converter for the first shift of the day on cold parts, its fine. Gordo recommended that the filter be pulled and it weeps anyway.

 

[CSIPSD]

Its your truck now, but I love having my filter on there. You could simply change the filter and see what happens, but I doubt it would change anything.

Mine still weeps a bit too. I've replaced the fittings twice now! LOL