Intake manifold ??

Black_Lightning91 · May 17, 2012

Okay so I pointed this out in Craigs changing it up thread but no one noticed I guess. I am wondering why none of the ported manifolds have a cross over tube at the back? Seems Navi decided that it was needed for better more evn airflow to the back cylinders. I have noticed any of the big comp manifolds for cummins/duramax is a log type with runners coming off that. Where the 6.4 is a kinda split. Could the firing order of the engine and the fact that the air has to travel down each side seperatly cause flow issues? What If someone made a cross over tube maybe 1-1/2" or 2" in dia if this would allow the air flow to even out and help with back cylinder breathing. Clearly the idea has merit or why else would navi invest all the money to add that to their newer engines?? Also proves that back cylinder breathing is an issue with the 6.4 powerstroke which did not have this update. Just a question since I dont have the equipment or funds to design my own intake manifold and prove or disprove my theory!

Wayne · May 17, 2012

How much room do you think there is for a crossover tube without removing the heat shields, up pipes, down pipe, or injection pump & lines? If you have a viable solution I'd love to hear about it, but I don't see that happening.

Black_Lightning91 · May 17, 2012

Well I'm spitting out ideas as I aint even got the truck. I decided to help out a friend who is a single mother with a 1 year old, a job and an apartment about to lose it all cause she didnt have a vehicle. I dont either but I don't have a kid to worry about so I gave up my chance at my dream truck (still sitting in texas) and co-signed for her to get a car. If I had one I would solve it for ya but atm my hands are tied.

Powerstroked162 · May 17, 2012

Black_Lightning91 said:
Okay so I pointed this out in Craigs changing it up thread but no one noticed I guess. I am wondering why none of the ported manifolds have a cross over tube at the back? Seems Navi decided that it was needed for better more evn airflow to the back cylinders. I have noticed any of the big comp manifolds for cummins/duramax is a log type with runners coming off that. Where the 6.4 is a kinda split. Could the firing order of the engine and the fact that the air has to travel down each side seperatly cause flow issues? What If someone made a cross over tube maybe 1-1/2" or 2" in dia if this would allow the air flow to even out and help with back cylinder breathing. Clearly the idea has merit or why else would navi invest all the money to add that to their newer engines?? Also proves that back cylinder breathing is an issue with the 6.4 powerstroke which did not have this update. Just a question since I dont have the equipment or funds to design my own intake manifold and prove or disprove my theory!

Im not familiar with this new design of manifold you are speaking of? I will say this though, the reason the back cylinders don't get the CFM the front cylinders do is simply because of flow obstruction in the manifold due to the way it is designed to be mounted. The split runner design has never really been an issue once its been ported and modified for a performance application and I wouldn't think adding a branch tube(if it would even fit, which Im pretty sure it wouldn't) would help any simply because of what has been seen in gains made by removing the very branch tube design you speak of, found on the intake manifolds of the '03 6.0 platform.

As far as fab work goes, the CumminGs engine is an intake manifold shops wet dream because its a simple inline 6 head to work with. Any v8 engine with a standard induction port located head design and valley mounted turbo's is a difficult one to master unless you were looking to do a remote mount charger(s) then there would be tons of room for something like the Elite ZZ race manifold, or similar. For what most here are trying to accomplish, the Elite ported stock manifold is plenty. Now, if we could find the room to increase the actual intake runner volume, then I believe we would be on to something...

Black_Lightning91 · May 17, 2012

must be some room for somethign though as navi did add one. How much idk or what all they may have moved to make it work idk but its just a thought.

Black_Lightning91 · May 17, 2012

Powerstroked162 said:
Im not familiar with this new design of manifold you are speaking of? I will say this though, the reason the back cylinders don't get the CFM the front cylinders do is simply because of flow obstruction in the manifold due to the way it is designed to be mounted. The split runner design has never really been an issue once its been ported and modified for a performance application and I wouldn't think adding a branch tube(if it would even fit, which Im pretty sure it wouldn't) would help any simply because of what has been seen in gains made by removing the very branch tube design you speak of, found on the intake manifolds of the '03 6.0 platform.

As far as fab work goes, the CumminGs engine is an intake manifold shops wet dream because its a simple inline 6 head to work with. Any v8 engine with a standard induction port located head design and valley mounted turbo's is a difficult one to master unless you were looking to do a remote mount charger(s) then there would be tons of room for something like the Elite ZZ race manifold, or similar. For what most here are trying to accomplish, the Elite ported stock manifold is plenty. Now, if we could find the room to increase the actual intake runner volume, then I believe we would be on to something...

Working on a link to the video where they talk about it and I have never dealt with 6.0's much so I didn't know that.

Black_Lightning91 · May 17, 2012

http://www.maxxforce.com/Application/pickup-and-suv/Engine/MaxxForce_7

This page watch the 360* video and at :48 it shows the cross over tube along with *integrated intake manifold air passages within the lower valve cover* not sure wth that means but yeah.

greasltn · May 17, 2012

They also use a single charger that sits farther forward and the intake is designed completely different.

jdgleason · May 17, 2012

greasltn said:
They also use a single charger that sits farther forward and the intake is designed completely different.

:whs: A lot of the maxxforce engines in school buses have the chargers up front. Not gonna work in your conventional 6.4.

4x4freak · May 17, 2012

jdgleason said:
:whs: A lot of the maxxforce engines in school buses have the chargers up front. Not gonna work in your conventional 6.4.

WHAT? sure it can with some $$$$ flip the exhaust manifolds around relocate the alternator

oke:

SEABEE08FX4 · May 17, 2012

Actually the new maxxforce 7 is a compound turbo set up like the 6.4 powerstroke, but not the same turbo set up or intake. Also its in a medium duty chassis so there is room to move more stuff around than in a light duty pick up. Either way a rear cross over will not work on the 6.4 powerstroke with the factory turbos in place.

Dzchey21 · May 17, 2012

SEABEE08FX4 said:
Actually the new maxxforce 7 is a compound turbo set up like the 6.4 powerstroke, but not the same turbo set up or intake. Also its in a medium duty chassis so there is room to move more stuff around than in a light duty pick up. Either way a rear cross over will not work on the 6.4 powerstroke with the factory turbos in place.

Actually most maxx force 7 aren't the same. Some come with single vgt turbos others come with compounds others cone with non vgt compounds all depends on intended use and HP guesses.

mike@haller's · May 17, 2012

Dustins right there are alot differences between them. My shop is the IC warranty center for wyoming. We do all the warranty work for international on all the school buses in wyoming. There really are no similarities in the maxxforces and the pickup 6.4s other than the block and rotating assemblies.

jdgleason · May 17, 2012

4x4freak said:
WHAT? sure it can with some $$$$ flip the exhaust manifolds around relocate the alternator oke:

Lol and then run a tunnel ram intake manifold

SEABEE08FX4 · May 18, 2012

Dzchey21 said:
Actually most maxx force 7 aren't the same. Some come with single vgt turbos others come with compounds others cone with non vgt compounds all depends on intended use and HP guesses.

I was referring to the newest one in that link.

amarillo250 · May 18, 2012

jdgleason said:
Lol and then run a tunnel ram intake manifold

Is there something like that for the 6.0??????

Powerstroked162 · May 18, 2012

amarillo250 said:
Is there something like that for the 6.0??????

Yuppers. Same as pictured above

jdgleason · May 18, 2012

Powerstroked162 said:
Yuppers. Same as pictured above

:whs:

amarillo250 · May 20, 2012

how much are they going for????

Kind · May 20, 2012

So what kind of set up would be achievable if there was only a single in the valley? Would there be room for much of an improvement over the ported stock? Somewhere in between the ported stock and the Elite masterpiece?