My tow pig/DD build thread. F350/Cummins 6.7/twins/6R140

me2

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I'm starting my tow pig build, so here is the thread.

The goal of the build is to replace the Ford 6.4 diesel engine and 5R110 transmission in my 08 F350 King Ranch with a twin turbo Cummins 6.7 and 6R140 transmission.

Performance objectives are to get as much reliable, fuel efficent power from the engine/transmission combo as possible for the purpose of towing a 14K pound 5th wheel in mountains as well as being a great daily driver and long distance driver.

Engine mods include paint, studs, 12V rods, twin turbos, tapped freeze plugs in the head, dual fuel filters and tuning with EFI Live.

The high pressure fuel system will probably remain stock, though I might install small oversize injectors if the fuel injection duration is too long to achieve the desired power. For injector longevity, I will be running stock fuel pressures.

The 6R140 and TC will remain stock. I specifically selected them for this swap because of their strength. I love the 6R140 gear ratios.

Numbers wise, I'm shooting for 1100+ ftlbs or better at the crank from 1600 RPM to 2750 RPM. If you are doing the math, that is 350 HP at 1650 and nearly 600 HP at 2750. Knock 20% off for driveline loss and I should see 280 and 480HP on a dyno. It will take over 50 PSI of boost to acheive this, thus the twin turbos.

A stock 2011 HO Dodge truck with a 6.7 is rated at 350 HP and 800 ftlbs at the crank and puts a bit over 280 HP to the ground on a dyno at 2700 RPM.

I am also seeking 20 MPG at 65-70 MPH in real world interstate driving and 11+ MPG pulling our 5er.

This engine will NOT be a dyno queen. Lots of Cummins engines can make 4-500 HP to the rear wheels for 10 seconds on the dyno. My engine mods are designed for tow use, which means no smoke and EGTS of less than 1300F at all times.

The turbo setup will be an S475 W 1.32 A/R primary and an HE351VE as the secondary. I might wastegate one or both, depending on how controllable the boost is via EFI Live.

A stock HE351VE delivers about 50 pounds per minute before it runs out of map. The S475 is from a Detroit Diesel Series 60 475-550 HP engine and delivers over 100 pounds per minute within its map.

I'm doing this project on a budget. When all is said and done, ie the old parts are sold, I am shooting for the overall cost to be less than $5K.

This is my second swap. My first swap was an 05 5.9 CR into a '99 F250 using a ZF6. Its run great for over 5 years. It was stolen and damaged last fall, thus this is the replacement truck for it.

I hope to have this swap running by the end of June, 2012, but I know that is very tight. I'm not sure if I'll make it or not.

Here is the truck.

20111025_004.jpg


Its an 08 F350 LB CC King Ranch, loaded. I bought it last fall with 82K. Its now got a bit over 100K on it. Its been back to the dealer several times on warranty since I bought it, including a complete fuel system replacement by Ford.

Its got 20 inch rubber, 3.73 gearing and a GVWR of 11,500 pounds. It weighs about 8200 pounds with fuel and me in it.

Other than the engine its been trouble free since I got it. I love just about everything about it.

Here is the engine.

DSC_6799.jpg


Its a late 09 Cummins 6.7. I has 4K miles on it. I picked it up at a wrecker on the drive home from buying the truck. I'll be running an 08 ECM on it, at least until EFI Live supports 09+ ECMs.

Here is the transmission.

DSC_6808.jpg


Its a Ford 2010 Torqushift 6 aka 6R140. I bought it at a wrecker.

Here are the turbos.

DSC_6811.jpg


From left to right, HE351VE, HE451VE and S475. I was going to run the HE451VE as a big single, but a) it didn't output quite enough air at the top end, b) is was worried about surging at the bottom end and c) I can set up twins for the same cost and hassle, so I decided to go that way.

I'll sell the HE451 once I know for sure I don't want it.

Here are just some of the documentation and tools required to do this project.

DSC_6809.JPG


As you can imagine, marrying a Cummins 6.7, 6R140 and 08 F350 together is not trivial as far as the electronics are concerned. This is by far the hardest component of the project. But it will be well worth it for the performance, economy and reliability that we get from it.

Here is what my shop presently looks like.

DSC_6805.jpg


We moved last fall and I'm just getting settled in.

First step in the project is to clean the shop. Next step is to finish installing a new bearing in the band saw. Third step is to put some oversized wheels on my engine hoist. Fourth step is to build a decent engine stand to hold the 6.7 while I perform the engine mods and hang the 6R140 on it. After that I'll start tearing apart the 6.7.

Several components are in transit as I write this.

The transfer case, rods, ECM connector, studs, resonator, flex plate, etc. have not arrived yet. I expect most of this stuff to arrive this week. A few special items are also still either being bought or in transit.

Other than that, I think I have just about everything I need to get started.

The purchasing and learning component of this project has taken a lot of time and effort. Since I bought the truck in early November, just about all my spare time has been spent reading, learning and figuring stuff out.

I don't have every aspect of this swap worked out. I've got enough worked out to know I can get it running, but there are bound to be a few obstacles along the way. Its going to be fun.

I'll post as progress dictates.
 
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Lowdown89

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Any intrest in trying a HE551veTI? My buddy was gonna run it on his 6.7 but is going non VGT, so he will make somebody a good deal on it
 

Hotrodtractor

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Here are just some of the documentation and tools required to do this project.

DSC_6809.JPG


As you can imagine, marrying a Cummins 6.7, 6R140 and 08 F350 together is not trivial as far as the electronics are concerned. This is by far the hardest component of the project. But it will be well worth it for the performance, economy and reliability that we get from it.

^^^^^^^ This picture right here^^^^^^^^

That is why I am watching this thread. This is a picture that only someone knowledgeable and dedicated to a project would be able to take. I'm looking forward to see the progress.
 

me2

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Thanks, guys !

Re HE551, I'm looking for boost down low, thus the twin setup. I think an HE551 has like a 76 or 80mm compressor wheel, depending on the model, and I suspect it will surge at the low flows a 6.7 has at 1600 or 1800 RPM.

I actually have turbo compressor maps and a spreadsheet for 6.7 air flows and HP to back up this reasoning if anyone wants to see them.

Its very nice to see a guy with a tuned 6.4 and another guy using an Allison in his swap offering encouragement. There are many ways to build a truck.
 
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me2

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I wrote the original post up about a week ago. Since then I got the new bearing in the bandsaw, the transfer case arrived, the rods arrived, I got my welders (Stick, plasma and TIG) set up and my garage is a lot cleaner.

The 12V rods need to go out for new wrist pin bushings. Actually I am not sure they need new bushings, but I am not going to take the chance. New bushings are about $50, but need the work of an engine machine shop to be installed and honed to the correct size. I've been quoted $150 labor for the set of 6, including a steam bath.

The engine builder wants a wrist pin from my 6.7 to size the bushings to when he hones them. Which means I need to get my engine torn apart. But I can't do that until I get the engine stand built and I'm presently out of town right now...

Why replaced the rods in a brand new 6.7 ?

Here are some interesting threads I found on the subject.

Montreal guy breaks a rod in his 6.7.
- "I towed with it many times and it was a dream good power low egt's fuel efficient it was the perfect set up till well... BOUM!!!"
- Stock 6.7 rods, a few mods and some towing.
- http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/6-7l-performance-parts-discussion/448132-blown-rod-help.html

Pictures of Rod Failures
- http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127171

After 5 Years... it had enough and went boom
- 3942579 rods failed. They were polished.
- Bad luck or bad polishing ?
- http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132171

Time for some better rods
- Bends 6 STOCK 12V rods in a CR at 900 HP.
- None of them break
- http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125830

Interesting document.
www.forging.org/system/files/field_document/FatigueBehavior.pdf

So, from this I deduce...

1) Stock 6.7 rods are not up to the task. If Montreal guy blew them with towing, so will I. 6.7 rods seem to snap, not bend, causing catastrophic damage. If the rods bend before they break, at least you have a chance to catch the problem before it causes damage.

2) The polished and peened 3942579 rods failed. Bad rod or bad polishing ? Rods are heat treated and all it would take is a local overheat with a grinder to wreck them.
And they need to be peened to be good if they are polished. Peening too deep actually makes them worse.

Do shops that rework rods know this and have sufficient quality control ?

3) Stock 5.9 rods seem to bend but not break. And it takes 900 HP to bend them and even bent they run fine for a long time.

Thus I am going to run stock 24V 5.9 rods.

And while we are at it, not all 12V connecting rods are the same.

Cummins TSB 98T0-5 "ISB Block Parts Compatibility"

Cummins%25203925232%2520directive.jpg


My rods are used 3922581 rods with casting number 3922579 from an early 24V engine.

I should be more careful when I talk about rods for these engines. In my OP, I stated its getting 12V rods. Technically, that isn't correct. Its actually getting 24V ISB rods.
 
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me2

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Just because I am out of town doesn't mean I am not working on my project. I'll be spending a day looking at the CAN messages involved with shifting the 6R140 in my Dad's 2011 F350.
 

me2

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Very cool and very well thought out!
We'll see.

There is a lot of stuff to get right to make it all work. I'm a bit nervous about being this public with the project but I love reading about everyone else's project, so its time I give back.
 

Matt_P

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We'll see.

There is a lot of stuff to get right to make it all work. I'm a bit nervous about being this public with the project but I love reading about everyone else's project, so its time I give back.

Well its definitely a lot more complicated than my conversion, I thought my wiring was a pain LOL
 

me2

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For a bit of background, this isn't my first swap. My first swap was an 05 5.9CR into a '99 F250 using a ZF6.

That truck was stolen last fall. Although it has been recovered, I decided its time to start over with a new truck. I'm trying to take everything that I liked about my old truck and improve it with the new truck.

I did that conversion in July of 2005. I put about 80K on it since then, a lot of those miles pulling 5ers. Its been a flawless truck. Its never let me down.

IMG_8844-preview2.jpg


IMG_8839-preview2.jpg


i-engine2.jpg


dscn0038.jpg


I tend to build a lot of my own parts for my swap. This swap will be no different.

enginemount.jpg


adapterplate.jpg


dscn0077.jpg
 

me2

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This is what it will be pulling.
IMG_9800-preview2-blocked.jpg


My old truck pulled it OK, but it had a full load when you got into headwinds and/or pulled in mountains. The engine in my old truck was stock 325/610.

With my new setup, I'm looking for effortless cruising under all conditions with good fuel economy. I'm hoping that between the increased engine power/torque and better gear ratios in the 6R140, ie pulling in 5th gear, that it gets me there.

The trailer has grown a bit since that picture. It now sports an extra kayak or two and a big rear rack loaded with stuff. And solar panels. And sometimes I pull a very small boat behind, depending on what the local jurisdictions allow.

IMG_0366-preview2.jpg
 
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me2

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Agreed. That is a hurdle that would be worth getting figured out as early as possible in the project.
Unfortunately, you can only go so far in that regard before you need to rip out the 6.4 and start testing the 6.7 and 6R140 in the truck.

I think I'm there. But there is no way to anticipate what I might encounter.

i might be calling on people with an '08 to '11 and Auto Enginuity to watch PIDs for me if I run into trouble after my truck becomes "incapacitated".

Let me state it up front, this swap is a bit of a gamble as far as the transmission selection goes. I think the engine part is fine. If the transmission doesn't doesn't work out, I'll fall back to a different model.
 

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