need some help

Short Bus

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Im finally diving head first into major 6.0 stuff, so i am in need of some troubleshooting help. First off the truck "blew up" in north dakota and was diagnosed by a ford dealer ship as needing an engine. The owner said it ran fine and when he came out of walmart it wouldnt start but would crank over fine. He felt the ford dealer was trying to stick him so he had the truck hauled home to me. I got the truck and noticed several things right off the bat.

1. no codes present
2. ICP builds, but engine shows no attempt to fire as in no smoke or fuel fumes in exhaust.
3. coolant resevor has little or no coolant in it and looks like it may have puked some out onto the tank.
4. ficm voltage is 48v

My first thing to do in the morning is to verify that the fuel pump is on and that i have fuel pressure to engine. Where can i tap into the fuel system w/o hacking things up to hook a fuel gauge up? Any other suggestions or things to look at? I know this may seem trivial to some but other than trouble shooting and replacing injectors im very inexperienced with 6.0's.

luke
 

Lilpooh

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Here is a copy/paste from Bismic.

Troubleshooting a NO-START:

1. Pull diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's) if you can (you can have codes without a Check Engine Light).

2. Automatic transmission shift lever fully in PARK or NEUTRAL? Try restarting while slightly moving the gearshift lever.

3. If manual, clutch pedal fully pressed?

4. Battery connections (all including grounds) - all good? Alternator cable connections good?

5. Starter relay connections - all good?

6. Glow plug connectors making good connection?

7. Is the starter engaging? Verify starter and ignition switch are working properly.

8. Load test BOTH batteries individually and check the charging system (alternator). PCM needs to see 100 rpm minimum to start IIRC.

9. Fusible links and fuses OK? The FICM relay is labled IDM Relay #304. Check it specifically.

10. Could a factory or aftermarket anti-theft device be causing the problem (Passive Active Theft System - PATS)? Disconnect it if possible. Same w/ a remote start system.

11. Push the reset on the emergency fuel cut-off switch.

12. Any oil pressure registering on the dash pressure gauge (low pressure system)? If not, it could be a bad oil pump (LPOP), a oil filter drain valve stuck open, or a bad oil pressure regulator. You should register oil pressure on the dash gauge in a long crank/ no start condition when the complete oil system is known to be sealed.

13. Check PCM and FICM connections - any wire chaffing? Any Injector harness chaffing? Any ICP or IPR harness chaffing? More detail below.

14. Verify that the oil level is correct and the proper oil and filter have been installed. Oil foaming and loss of viscosity (too thick or fuel diluted) can be an issue. Check oil level for fuel dilution, inspect oil condition, maybe even change oil and filter. Definitely make sure you filled w/ the proper oil.

15. Verify that the air filter is not plugged - Check the filter minder and you may even want to pull the air filter and inspect.

16. Inspect the ICP sensor and harness. Is it oil soaked? Disconnect the ICP and try again. The PCM will establish a default control scheme that would allow the truck to start if the problem were the ICP sensor. Afterwards, make sure the harness is re-installed securely. Also, check ICP circuit fuse.

17. Change both fuel filters, inspect appearance of the fuel when draining the water separator (you could just have bad fuel).
Make sure that the air is purged on start-up. By following the proper (KOEO) cycling procedure before cranking."

18. If you can, verify the fuel pressure (test port is at the base of the secondary fuel filter). Must be over 45 psig.

19. If you have no fuel flow or low pressure, it could be a bad pump (HFCM), OR it could be a plugged fuel filter or plugged lines. You can blow air through the lines to check for plugging. If there is no pluggage, test the pump. First, pull fuse 302 (PCM) and relay 304 (FICM) and then pull the secondary (upper) fuel filter, remove any fuel, and then verify that it is being filled by cranking the engine. As it is being filled, make sure there are no air bubbles. If there are, you have a leak in some connections, the HFCM suction line, or the HFCM o-ring (most likely). Be sure to lube the o-ring w/ oil before re-installing.
TO CHECK FOR SUCTION LINE PLUGGING:
The pump vacuum test is refered to as an ""inlet restriction test"". This will test from the pump to the tank for a restriction. A reading that of more than 6"" H2O vacuum is very bad. 6"" is the max limit. The normal reading is between 2"" and 0"" of H2O.
To do this test you would need to ""T"" a vacuum gauge in between the back of the pump and the line coming into it. If you have a high reading there, then move the T to the tank at the outlet line. If the restriction is still present at the tank, then the problem is in the tank. If there is no restriction at this point, then the issue would be with the supply line to the pump."

20. Pull the oil filter top and have someone crank it while you watch to see if any oil is flowing into the filter housing. If not then it is a LPO problem. Take a long extension and hold down the check valve (round black thing held up by a spring). Have someone crank the engine. The housing should fill within about 10 seconds of cranking.

21. If possible, verify high pressure oil pressure (ICP sensor) - must be over 500 psig to fire the injectors. See link below.

22. Pull the EGR valve and inspect. Clean if dirty. Check the strength of the spring. Consider replacing it - just because. Also clean the MAP sensor hose and the EBP tube. These may cause surging and hard start, but a long shot for a no-start.

23. Troubleshoot the glow plug system (you need a clamp on inductive ammeter). Test each glow plug module wire bundle separately, then test each glow plug. Look for any amperages lower on one side or lower to an individual glow plug. From each module you should see 200 A at first dropping quickly to 35-37 A if the GPCM is OK. Both modules should read apprx. the same. Each glow plug will draw 8-10 A. Or you could check the resistance in each glow plug - should be less than 1 ohm.

24. Carry out the KOEO Injector Electrical Self-Test (Click Test) and the bubble test.

25. Check the Crank (CKP) and Cam (CMP) sensor wiring harnesses.

26. Check the FICM voltage - see post #2 of this thread (below).

Wire Chaffing Locations:
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forum...ad.php?t=58336

FICM and ICP harness recall
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/photographs/index1.php
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articl...icle-05-13.php
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articl...icle-05-11.php
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forum...harness+recall

mms://multimedia.ford.com/seopts/Tech12_250k.wmv
(in the link above you may have to copy and past the address in your web browser to access the video from Ford.

h t t p://turbodieselforums.com/downloads/6.0L%20wire%20chafing.pdf
(copy and paste the URL above in your browser - without the spaces in http)
h t t p://turbodieselforums.com/downloads/Econoline%20Wire%20Chafe.pdf
(copy and paste the URL above in your browser - without the spaces in http)

TROUBLESHOOT THE HPO PRESSURE SYSTEM:

http://www.itpdiesel.com/store.php?s...fault&x=61&y=8
In the ITP search page enter "high pressure oil" and click on the drop down "Look For" and select "exact phrase". Go to page 2.

Determinimg if the ICP sensor is seeing 500 psig minimum:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/86...not-start.html
scroll down to post #23 in the thread linked above.

If possible, you can pull the ICP and install a pressure gauge to check the pressure in the “high pressure oil system”. Crank the engine and watch the pressure. You need 500 psig to start. The fitting needed for this is the same as that for the fuel pressure test port.

Here is a way of checking to see if you have sufficient high pressure oil without having a gauge or adapter. Strip back the wires about an inch away from the icp sensor connector. Obtain a digital multimeter and set it for voltage (DC). The bn-wh wire is a five volt reference, leave that alone. Strip back the db-lg signal wire and the gy-rd ground wire. Put positive lead on a dark blue-light green wire and negative lead on gray-red wire. Have an assistant crank truck, you need a minimum of 0.80 volts (500 psi) for the truck to start, if you are getting greater than that then you have sufficient high pressure oil.

To check your ipr and hp oil system:
1. Get an ipr connector from Ford and put 2 long wires on the end, plug it into the ipr. Later you will attach the 2 long leads to b+ and negative ...... this will close the ipr.
2. Then remove your icp sensor (04.25 and up truck??) from the passenger side valve cover and thread a fitting in with an air fitting on the end (so you can apply compressed air to the hp oil system).
3. Remove your oil fill cap, your intake up to the turbo (get the ccv out of the valve cover at least), and the hot side cac tube.
4. Then, command the IPR closed for only 30 seconds, apply 100psi air to the hp oil system and listed to where the leak is coming from.
When you hear it you've found your problem....that is assuming you have a hp oil problem.
If your building low and high oil pressure fine, then you've just wasted your time.

Generally on no-start conditions that are related to "high pressure oil" leaks, the vehicle will still develop low pressure system pressures. However, the plug on the H.P. oil feed can occasionally blow out, the H.P. pump seal can blow out, and on the '03-04 trucks the ball on the side of the H.P. pump blow out - causing loss of base oil pressure.

Hard start - no start conditions related to the HPOP could be attributed to the following components in the high pressure oil system (air test while hot will determine the root cause):
http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/for...ad.php?t=11583
Faulty IPR valve
Leaking snap-to-connect (STC) fitting (05 and up model years)
Leaky or cracked branch tube
Leak with the stand pipe
Leaky or cracked oil rail (including oil rail end caps/plugs)
Leak in the d-rings of the oil rail front port plugs (or dummy plugs)
Leaky o-ring on an injector; or leak at the top of the injector where the ball tube from the high pressure oil rail connects to the injector.
Weak or failed HPOP itself
Low base oil pressure (failed oil pressure regulator).
Low base oil pressure (bad low pressure oil pump - LPOP).

Post #3 below has a low pressure oil test procedure

Post #4 below has another reference to a no-start checklist

One easy check for injector problems: SEE POST #5 below
"When injectors fail, it is possible for combustion gasses to flow into the fuel system and displace the fuel. The gasses come through the pintle seat and into the fuel galley in the head and up into the fuel filter.

Crank Shaft Position Sensor (CKP)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/al...ictureid=15905
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/al...ictureid=15906
http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_h.../Page_052.html

Cam Shaft Position Sensor (CMP)
http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_h.../Page_010.html
http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_h.../Page_053.html


Here is the link from that copy/paste, so you can read the links.
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0-repair-help/142850-troubleshooting-no-start-condition.html
 

G Racing

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What are you seeing for icp while cranking? Also, when you turn the key on do you hear the injectors buzzing? Those two easy checks will help ya out.
 

Mdub707

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What is ICP actual and desired? What about IPR duty cycle?

Is the low pressure oil gauge coming up after cranking? Indicating low oil pressure?

What shape are the batteries in? Might not hurt to have them load tested as well.

I concur with G racing, check this stuff out first.
 

Short Bus

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Ipr dc was 49-50%
Icp actual was 1500
Icp desired was 1490-1500
Injectors do buzz when you turn key on and they pass buzz test
Batteries are on the weak side I think, after they charge again I will test them
Not seeing any lpo on the dash

Edit- I have not checked any fuel pump stuff
 

G Racing

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Well it looks like the hpop and ficm is good. I would check the charge of the batteries and the fuel pressure. You can pull the upper fuel filter and see if it's full of fuel. If its empty have someone turn the key over and see if it's filling with fuel, if the pump isn't humming when you turn the key On your pump is probably bad
 

Mdub707

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Yeah, pull the filter and turn the key, see if the bowl fills up with fuel. You can see it yourself if you leave the hood open and look through the windshield, just have to stand on the running board or something to position yourself right haha
 

Short Bus

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There's fuel up top when you key the truck on. Also both batteries load tested ok and each are holding 12.6-12.7v but voltage while cranking drops to 9.4 verified by a fluke meter. I even had jumpers on from a truck high idling and voltage still dropped out. I'm going to put a starter on and think that should fix the cranking/ voltage issue.
 

Scarlet_Nape

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Luke,

I never measured the voltage, but I did have a starter that would crank the truck, but would NOT start it. Took a day and some arguing with O'Reilly's to get a new starter (it passed their load test), but that was the fix.
 

Short Bus

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That's kinda where I was headed with it. Between the ford dealer cranking on it and what little I've done, it could have been enough to push an older starter too far. We'll see what happens, should have one delivered with an hour.
 

Short Bus

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What size of o-ring fitting is that? I already have a 100 psi gauge with a -4 female swivel at the end.
 

kyle43335

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What size of o-ring fitting is that? I already have a 100 psi gauge with a -4 female swivel at the end.

12mmx1.5. same as the heads. hydraulic companies call that fitting din lite?:shrug: dont know why?
 

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