Some interesting findings on B code injectors

Tim @ P.I.S.

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While doing some work for a customer and his BI code injectors I took a few extra runs on the flow bench. I remember a few years ago when BD injectors first became popular a few starting running these oil thirsty BI injectors. Thinking they were running something big and bad, little did they know at the time just what they had.

Running 6ms/pw they flow 275cc, but with any real rpms they fall flat.

Running 4ms/pw they flow 180cc, and again speed them up and the cc drops just a bit.

3000rpms; 3000psi hpo; 4ms/pw = 175cc

4000rpms; 3000psi hpo; 2.9ms/pw = 150cc

Carry on...........
 

Tim @ P.I.S.

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I'm glad I went with hybrids

Dont count your chickens just yet. I have done some work/repairs to "other" brand hybrids lately. It would shock some of you to find out that under "wot" situations that you are getting the sme amount of fuel as a stage 1 injector. And some even less.
 

davey99ps

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Dont count your chickens just yet. I have done some work/repairs to "other" brand hybrids lately. It would shock some of you to find out that under "wot" situations that you are getting the sme amount of fuel as a stage 1 injector. And some even less.

I'm not at all arguing with what your saying here, but if my hybrids were falling off that much in the upper rpm range, then wouldn't it also show up on the dyno? I realise the flow bench would obviously be the better way to measure this, but wouldn't the dyno show a fall off? Also, I personally watched Cass go through mine, including running them on his flow bench, so I have my doubts that mine fall off that bad.
 

vanderchevy18

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Theoretically, mine shouldn't even make the power that it does on the "small" injectors that I have. I have doubts mine are falling on their face. Not arguing. Just saying.
 

Tim @ P.I.S.

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I'm not at all arguing with what your saying here, but if my hybrids were falling off that much in the upper rpm range, then wouldn't it also show up on the dyno? I realise the flow bench would obviously be the better way to measure this, but wouldn't the dyno show a fall off? Also, I personally watched Cass go through mine, including running them on his flow bench, so I have my doubts that mine fall off that bad.

DO you not see a dive on the graphs??

And that is deff a nice option to be able to see your own injectors flow tested before your eyes. Do you know the parameters used in your test??What oil psi? what rpm? what pulse width?

There are a thousand ways to run them. ANd I will just say I was floored by my findings.
 

Gearhead

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Do you mean like the ones thave have like .002 of poppett travel and don't flow any oil because the builder didn't use good cores?
 

Tim @ P.I.S.

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Poppet travel can be corrected a number of ways. There is another problem that can not. That is another reason I like Alliant injectors, it gives me an avenue to dump my junk injectors as cores to them.

If an injector just isnt up to par to my specs, it goes into the scrap pile.
 

Hotrodtractor

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How are the numbers in the first post even relevant without telling us what tip was on the injector? You know as well as I do that tip flow rate is a very large contributing factor to the amount of fuel delivered at any particular ICP and PW combination.
 

Tim @ P.I.S.

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How are the numbers in the first post even relevant without telling us what tip was on the injector? You know as well as I do that tip flow rate is a very large contributing factor to the amount of fuel delivered at any particular ICP and PW combination.

It was a stock BI injector with a stock BI tip. This was from an IH 6 engine.

And it really doesnt matter, because even with a 400% nozzle on it the results would not have changed an awfull lot.

I have been meaning to ask you, who's bench do you use to test your injectors on??
 
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Chvyrkr

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So, would 90% of max HP at 3800 RPM's be indicative of that dive off you're talking about?
 

Hotrodtractor

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It was a stock BI injector with a stock BI tip. This was from an IH 6 engine.

And it really doesnt matter, because even with a 400% nozzle on it the results would not have changed an awfull lot.

I have been meaning to ask you, who's bench do you use to test your injectors on??

Are you saying that you don't see any appreciable gains in flow rate at any particular ICP and PW combination using a 400% tip over a stock BI tip? Or are you saying that B-codes don't perform as well at RPMs as say a hybrid injector with a similar displacement and tip? I guess I'm now a bit confused as to what your point of the first post even is.....

At low ICP conditions at a particular PW and tips size the A code will outflow the B code will outflow the Hybrid. At high ICP conditions at a particular PW and tip size the hybrid will outflow the b-code will outflow the A-code. Generally speaking that is. Variations in loss of flow as RPMs increase on an injector at any given PW and ICP is more of an issue with injector and test setup. There are both internal and external things that can be done to help with the loss of flow at RPM.

Looking at a split shot injector like a BI is also not a real good way to really understand how these injectors work - that split shot function adds a couple of variables to the mix that just complicates the matter. Simplifying the setup to a single shot injector removes those variables.

I use data from multiple benches - most notably my good friends Cass's bench at Full Force and Nate's bench at Unlimited - but have had offers in the past from other performance injector builders as well. Its interesting the variations I have seen in testing working with two shops like this independent of each other. I can tell you that running the same set of injectors on each bench under the same conditions will not show you the same flow data - but both benches will show improvements from injector modifications when comparing that data to previous data done on the same bench - and both benches will allow someone to build, flow, and balance a set of injectors just fine. These variations are due to construction differences between the benches - its much like seeing the difference in two trucks with the exact same setup - but one setup produces more power than the other for no readily available reason. I've been very careful to not share any proprietary info between the two shops - and I can tell you that both go about the building and setup process differently - not that one way is better than the other - just different. I use injectors from both builders in trucks locally.
 

Tim @ P.I.S.

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No I was stating that under the [3000rpms; 3000psi hpo; 4ms/pw = 175cc
4000rpms; 3000psi hpo; 2.9ms/pw = 150cc] there would be little to no gain by just switching from a stock BI nozzle to something even as large as a 400% nozzle. Based on the factory design of the injector. As you know nozzle size alone is not the only factor in flow.

The whole meaning of this post was showing that those in the past that choose to run BI injectors were not getting the actual fuel flow they might have thought.
 

davey99ps

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DO you not see a dive on the graphs??

And that is deff a nice option to be able to see your own injectors flow tested before your eyes. Do you know the parameters used in your test??What oil psi? what rpm? what pulse width?

There are a thousand ways to run them. ANd I will just say I was floored by my findings.

Yes there was a dive in the graph, much like every other graph I've ever had or seen.
As far as Ryan's flow testing, yes I personally watched him flow my injectors, which were built out of new alliant injectors. I'll be the 1st to admit that I have no clue what psi or anything else he did when he flowed them, but I fully trust him with my injectors on account of he's been doing it a long time an I've never heard anything bad about him or his company. Bottom line is, I trust that my injectors are doing exactly what cass said they would
 

Chvyrkr

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NOt all brands of injectors have this problem. Do you have a graph you can post and what injectors do you run??

Some stroked A codes from Casserly. So, by all rights they should be the worst flowing injector at high RPM's, of the bunch.

dynocropped.png


Edit: the solid line under the HP line is the x25 line, with peak at x61.
 
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Tim @ P.I.S.

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Some stroked A codes from Casserly. So, by all rights they should be the worst flowing injector at high RPM's, of the bunch.

dynocropped.png


Edit: the solid line under the HP line is the x25 line, with peak at x61.

I do have to say your graph looks better than alot I have seen. But what is the peak at? I cant quite make it out from the pic.
 

Tim @ P.I.S.

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Does anyone have one of Greg's(dockboys) old dyno sheets from back when he was still in a 7.3? Im looking for a fuel only run.
 

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