SXE 363/68/.83 + 200/30 hybrids?

Peroni

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Helping to build an all around farm/tow vehicle. It's a 2000 F350 that has 4.10 gearing, locally built 4R100, reg return, Tymar intake, 200/30% hybrids, SXE 364.5 w/ 80mm turbine and .91 housing, and a Hydra with Jelibuilt tuning. That's how the truck was purchased. With a hot street tune the truck is just meh. It runs and drives okay, stab the throttle and it will leave a haze. Can't seem to built more than 20psi and egt's seem higher than they should be. A tow tune actually wakes up the turbo a bit better and is cleaner. Still seems to hit a wall around 25psi while egt's keep climbing. Tows somewhat decent as long as the revs are kept north of 2000rpm but still gets too hot on long grades. I've checked for boost and exhaust leaks and there are none. Tried a couple tunes from other vendors with very similar results.

I think it's the large turbine along with not having enough fuel to really get it going. I've done some reading around the net and the SXE 363/68 seems to have done really well on a few mildly built 7.3's, both with the .91 and .83 housing. This truck is going to be a daily driver along with hauling hay and horses/mules all around the mid Atlantic. For the owner's driving style something that will give good performance between 1500 and 2500rpm would be ideal. With the 200/30 hybrids would a 363/68/.91 or .83 get us there? They're willing to spend the money and Black Friday deals do make a whole new turbo a bit more attractive.
 

Kowboy

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Peroni,
I have a SXE 363/68/.83 gated. I am at about 3000' in elevation, and wander to 8000+. I am running a ZF6 and 3.55 gears. I had the .91 turbine housing on the 363, it was much better then the D66 turbo it replaced, but, still did not clean up the 160/80 injectors on a hot tune unless you were easing into it. Once RPM's were above 1800 it was much better, but you still had to ease into it. I could run a lower tune and have 0 smoke, but I prefer to have a bit more power then the heavy tow tune offers. But still to Smokey for my preference. I just recently installed the .83 gated housing. I have only towed about 6000 lbs, boost comes on sooner, exhaust temps are lower, mileage is up .5 to 1 mpg. I can run in the hot tune and have no issues with temps when towing. I have not towed the toy-hauler yet but I believe that the .83 housing is far better then the .91 for my driving style. I am sure that some people will not agree with me, and say a 363/68 is a small turbo for the 7.3, and that the .83 is to restrictive. I think it is a great match, power, performance, throttle response, have all improved a great deal. Wish I had known about the gated .83 turbine housing sooner. Be aware that the waste gate actuator will not fit in its current location, it will interfere with the intake plenums ( I am running RR 3" plenums). I am working on a mount and linkage to mount it up out of the way. I have seen some of the machining that you have done and you should have 0 issues with a minor mod like this.
Also I prefer to operate my truck in the 1500 to 2000 range most of the time, but when I am loaded heavy it will see the 2500+ as I am going through the gears. So your 1500 to 2500 range would be ideal for the 363/68. I am sure that I have left out a few things, if you have any questions please ask and I will do my best to answer.
 

Kowboy

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Peroni,
I think that you will be surprised at how well it performs. When I was trying to decide on what turbo would fit my driving style, along with our elevation. I contacted a number of vendors and the 364.5/80 was reamended the most, followed by the 366. I did not feel good about either of these two turbos. I had also contacted James Barder. He suggested the 363/68/.91, I asked him why the small turbine, his response was that the smaller turbine would spool better, and that the larger turbine was kind of a mismatch for the 363.
His exact quote
"The 68 will be more responsive for what your looking to do. Will limit top end a little but give you better low end.
The 63/73 is a bit of a mismatch."

I never felt that it stopped pulling in the upper RPM's, but I don't spend much time there.

Please let us know your thoughts when it is back up and running with the 363.
 
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JSchuricht

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Kowboy, your making me rethink my plans. Was leaning towards 364.5 .91 to go with my 95 7.3 ZF6 4.10 combo with 238/100's, not so sure about that now.

@Kowboy, do you recall if the 363 was recommended in part due to the injector size and 3.55 gears?
 

Kowboy

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JSchuricht,
At the time I was asking about the S300 turbo I had a ZF5 42 and 3.55's. I was running the D66 turbo, with 160/80 injectors. I started out with the 1.0 turbine housing and then went to a gated .94, and then to a non gated .84. All of these were quite slow to spool. I actually think that the stock turbo spooled better then the D66. I know a guy in Twin Falls ID that had a T4 with an old style 366/.91,. Cody's truck has an auto trans with 4.10's and 160/30 injectors I believe. When I drove his truck It was much more responsive (turbo) and less smoke. Just built boost better then the D66. Cody told me he went through nearly the same route I had. I started looking at the options available for the T4 turbos and decided on moving to T4. My dilemma was what turbo? I contacted a number of vendors and read many posts on the BW SXE turbos. Had many different turbo options suggested.
James Barder suggested the 363/68 due to my elevation. I had also asked about the different turbine wheels 68 0r 73, for the 363 he said that the 73 would be slower to spool and a bit of a mismatch. So elevation played a big part of my choice. I have been down near sea level and it is a bit more responsive but still is a great match for my setup.

I did contact AGP turbo before ordering the gated .83 housing. I went gated so if I do happen to push it some that I will not overspeed the turbo, and will keep the exhaust back pressure in check. Please read the above post as the gated housing needs some work to fit.

There are quite a few folks running the 363 just takes some digging to locate the info. Here is one long post with quite a bit of info. FYI: The 363 will move more air then the 38R

Hope this helps.
 
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idshred

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Kowboy, your making me rethink my plans. Was leaning towards 364.5 .91 to go with my 95 7.3 ZF6 4.10 combo with 238/100's, not so sure about that now.

@Kowboy, do you recall if the 363 was recommended in part due to the injector size and 3.55 gears?
Kowboy, your making me rethink my plans. Was leaning towards 364.5 .91 to go with my 95 7.3 ZF6 4.10 combo with 238/100's, not so sure about that now.

@Kowboy, do you recall if the 363 was recommended in part due to the injector size and 3.55 gears?
It seems like to me there aren’t a lot of guys running the 363 that I have read about that are using injectors that size, lots of stock superduty through ‘stage 1.5’ sized injectors. I’d be curious how you’d like it with that sized injectors. I’m running a stage 2 kc (63/73) with 238/80s with 3.73s and 32” tires on my 2001 7.3. I really like how it works.

what rpm do you want to cruise at towing ? With 4.10s I personally would Stick with the 364.5, but that’s just me.

I’m still messing around with a barder diy d66 kit on my 97, it works for me but is a 2200+ rpm setup.
 

Kowboy

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Here is an older post of some folks that switched to a 363/68. I think it really comes down to how you use and drive you truck, and elevation. Going from a D66 style turbo to a SXE363/68/.91 was a major improvement. But it was still smokey in the hotter tunes. The only one that was clean as stock was the heavy tow tune, all others were to smokey for me. I did not have to watch my exhaust temp and tail pipe with this turbo as with the D66, but I still had to watch my tail pipe. With the .83 gated housing that is in the past and no longer an issue. I have had my 95 for over 27 years. It main purpose is towing or hauling material. When the speed limit was 55, with 285/75/16 and 4.10 I was just under 60 at 2000 rpm. Most of my driving is on state highways with a speed limit of 55 to 65, their are times that I will get on the highway with a speed limit of 80. I don't drive the truck that fast towing, I will do 70 with a short burst faster if I am passing. I try to keep the RPM's at or below 2000 for mileage reasons. It really comes down to how you use/drive your truck.
 

dsrace

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when i decided to make a few changes to my e99, drw 4x4, zf6, 3.73..... hybrid 205/30's, t4 up pipe kit , sxe 366/73-.91, hydra and after purchasing those i decided why not an adrenaline hpop. purchased all of it from full force diesel. had the up pipes thermal coated, exh manifolds thermal coated as well as the turbine housing. i figured, why not while i have it apart. i knew a couple guys with auto trans running the sxe 364.5 pulling toyhaulers down the innerstates, as i do with mine. finding info from others that pull campers was difficult. i ran php, 1023 and jelibuilt tunes. i had ilde quality issues so i had a few revisions and they helped but nothing cleaned it up. for some reason they were tuning for 80% tips rather then the 30% and all tuners kept asking if i was sure i recieved 30% tips, ffd assured me that i did and that there injs were good. drove it that way for a while until i couldn't stand it anymore and made a switch box to test the injectors. i have video's of those tests on you tube and i did perform a cold cranking comp test while i was there. i know that isn't saying much as a leak down test or even a running comp test would be far better but i was there and did. weakest cyl was 415 psi cold crank and strongest was 425 psi, truck just turned 142k miles yesterday.

the 366/.91 exh was great at 70 mph and up while towing. empty, pulling a hill in heavy tow mode, i could spool to 30 psi if i floored it. that would make a school bus dissapear so we just don't. that turbo reacts differently to a manual vs an auto. i have no idea why but imo, the 366-.91 is far better suited for an auto then a manual. at that time i was pulling a 2011 wp 295 fifthwheel toyhauler. 10,500 lbs loaded, 12'2" tall and 34' long. if i dropped down below 65 mph in 6th then it would lug and smoke, struggle to boost back up for a few seconds. on data logs it would make 1 psi by 1500 rpm but it lugged hard. at 1850 rpm it would spool to 10 to 15 psi pretty easy but by 1950 rpm it was what i considered very responsive. on flat ground, with cruise set at 73 mph pulling the toyhauler, it would cruise at say 10 psi until the hill and then it would spike to 35 psi faster then i could shut the cruise off. never went over 1200* egts though! that was running south oni35 through kansas from nebraska to oklahoma.

the real interesting part is that you cannot build more then 20 psi empty. i say this because it turned out, i had 4 very poor injectors from ffd. 2 of the 4 made no change to mfdes when shut off at idle. i replaced them with brand new 205/30s from bitteroot diesel and all idle issues were great again. switched to aa tunes and kept php tunes as well. 1023 were un usable from day one and jelibuilts didn't make much power or i should say as much as php tunes did. couldn't get over 25 psi boost with jelibuilts were phps would spike 35 psi.

even with 4 poor inj's i could still hit those boost levels with the sxe366-.91 exh with php tunes. that turbo was all top end with my manual trans so i finally switched to a sxe 363/68-.91 exh. i now can command 10 psi at 1500 rpm. i like to set the cruise at 72 or 73 mph while towing the toyhauler and at that rpm the 363 is very responsive and does not exceed 1200* even on a 96* ambient temp day at 1400' elevation. have not made another run to idaho so i have not been back up to 9k ' with this turbo.

with the new inj's and new tunes from aa, we drove 9 hrs to mt rushmore, towing the camper down 65 mph hwys and 73 mph on the innerstate. the last half of the drive was in 30 mph gusting winds. for the first time, since all the changes, with 8 good injectors that were actually flow tested, i was able to tow 9hrs in stockish mode! didn't need a tow mode to get the job done. we are at 1440' elevation here at home and i don't remember what mt rushmore or along the way was. it is higher then here though.

swapping from the 366/73-.91 to the 363/68-.91 moved spool up down a solid 300 rpm. the stock e99 turbo saw 1psi by 1200 rpm and was very responsive but lacked top end breathe while towing on the innerstate. the two i referenced above, with auto trans are far more responsive then i saw, while towing their campers and have larger inj's then i do. i put my old turbo up for sale for 550 and got some low ball offers so i boxed it up and put it in a cabinet. it would be interesting to see the diff a .84 exh would make with the 363 but i am happy with it where it is now and don't want to change them out just for grins and giggles.

i have no idea why you cannot build more then 20 psi. i am not saying it's the jelibuilt tunes but my experience with his tunes were similar, when compared to php tunes and now aa tunes. jelibuilts tunes were great for a manual trans vs php and the unusable 1023 tunes. aa has a similar tuning strategy for manual trans as well but still make more power.......imo.

i should probably mention, the other two auto trucks i referenced were 200 and 2001 models. i say this because the e99 pcm has fewer tuning cells and is more difficult to tune. that can make a difference but no idea how much.
 
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idshred

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i have no idea why but imo, the 366-.91 is far better suited for an auto then a manual.


First off, great post with your thoughts and ideas! I have a 7.3 with an auto and one with a manual and would prefer the manual with a 66mm turbo any day of the week because I can always keep the rpm’s where I want them. As you know since having both the bigger sized turbos require a vastly different driving style than a 363. With my manual I can generally keep rpm’s high enough to keep the turbo in the range it likes to be in. The smaller turbos seem to be way more forgiving and the rpm range they work in is broader for towing.

I have yet to read about anyone that has gone to a 363 from a 364.5 or a 366 that didn’t like the 363 more.
 

lincolnlocker

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You guys have your map sensor tuned out or at least a boost fooler? Should be no reason a 4.10 geared 7.3 has any issue with spool with a 66mm and down inducer.. even a non gated 1.15 housing and van turbo isnt laggy.. or hesitant.
 

idshred

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You guys have your map sensor tuned out or at least a boost fooler? Should be no reason a 4.10 geared 7.3 has any issue with spool with a 66mm and down inducer.. even a non gated 1.15 housing and van turbo isnt laggy.. or hesitant.

A lot of the guys I’m reading about switching to the 363sxe/68 want a turbo that will spool towing at 1400-1500 rpm.
 
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dsrace

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You guys have your map sensor tuned out or at least a boost fooler? Should be no reason a 4.10 geared 7.3 has any issue with spool with a 66mm and down inducer.. even a non gated 1.15 housing and van turbo isnt laggy.. or hesitant.
as i listed above, my truck has 3.73 gears. i do have a boost fooler however, the tuner does tune some out. i believe at 28 psi it would set an over boost cel but that would turn off a mile down the road. 4.10 gears would be perfect for that 366 imo.
 

dsrace

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First off, great post with your thoughts and ideas! I have a 7.3 with an auto and one with a manual and would prefer the manual with a 66mm turbo any day of the week because I can always keep the rpm’s where I want them. As you know since having both the bigger sized turbos require a vastly different driving style than a 363. With my manual I can generally keep rpm’s high enough to keep the turbo in the range it likes to be in. The smaller turbos seem to be way more forgiving and the rpm range they work in is broader for towing.

I have yet to read about anyone that has gone to a 363 from a 364.5 or a 366 that didn’t like the 363 more.
yes, my post was based on my personal experience and not on other posts. i agree that the larger turbos require a different driving style. my issue is that i cannot keep the rpms where i want them. not with out risk of speeding tickets anyway. what i mean by that is......when towing my toyhauler with 3.73 gears ( as i listed in my long post above) 65 mph in 6th gear is at or below 1800 rpm's. at that threshold, it would feel like it was lugging and i would see an increase in egts then coolant temps would follow, if sustained. if i drop a gear into 5th then it i'm running 2500 to 2600 rpm at 65 mph, egts and coolant would drop instantly. some may be ok with those rpms sustained but i'm not ok with it for 5 to 6 hrs, as it reduces mpg's drastically. in my case, in 6th gear, it was 72 mph min for pulling a 12'6" tall box especially with gusting winds. if the vast majority of my towing was on or at interstate speeds or with 4.10 gears, then i definatley would've left the sxe 366. even at 35 psi towing the toyhauler, it never exceeded 1200* egts on a 96* day. those were short spikes at 35 psi to top a hill and not sustained pressures.

i know one person running the 364.5/73-.91 exh and that seems to tip in 150 rpm's sooner then the 366 towing a similar toyhauler. based on that, i decided to try the 363/68-.91 exh, shooting for a 300 rpm lower spool.

knowing then what i know now, if the e99 turbo would've had a little better flow ( my idea of top end ,2200 -2400 ish rpm) i would've swapped the 3.73s out for 4.10 gears, slowed down to 70 mph on the interstate, mild 40 hp tow tune on stock injectors and would've been all i needed for towing a 10,500 lb full profile camper. a lot cheaper, quieter too, as well as best all around for my use. that stock e99 turbo would produce 1 psi at 1200 rpm on data logs. insanely responsive as well, just too restrictive on the top end based on egts....... for my application. at 25 psi, topping a hill, towing the toyhauler, i would see 1300* to 1350* egt's.

one thing that i feel i need to include, is that my experiance was with 8 remanned full force diesel hybrid 205/30% injectors. at idle atleast 2 of them were on the edge of bad and 2 more were weak. didn't figure that out until after the swap and that does make a difference. how much of a difference, i dont know. what i do know is that after replacing them with 8 brand new 205/30's that were actually flow tested, from bitteroot diesel, the sxe 363 installed, i was able to tow from lincoln nebraska to mt rushmore south dakota in stockish mode, in gusting winds, and 0 egt or power issues. very happy with this combo with my 3.73 gears. the '95 psd i owned prior to this one had 4.10s and it did make a difference imo. during the turbo swap i changed toyhaulers as well. now 4' shorter but same height and weight, and a bumper hitch now. fivers definitely handle side winds better.

when i am able to finally make a trip back to st anthony sand dunes in idaho, that is 90% interstate and that sxe 366 would've shined for that run.
 

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lincolnlocker

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as i listed above, my truck has 3.73 gears. i do have a boost fooler however, the tuner does tune some out. i believe at 28 psi it would set an over boost cel but that would turn off a mile down the road. 4.10 gears would be perfect for that 366 imo.
It set a cel for overboost with a boost fooler installed?
 

dsrace

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it would set a cel before i installed the boost fooler. it would set the cel light at or very close to 28 psi with a tuner installed that claimed they were tuning some of that out. with the boost fooler installed i do not have a cel.
 

cjfarm111

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I’m looking to dump my 180/80’s and I currently have a 364.5 matched with them. I also have a 363 new in a box from Barder turbo as well. I’m just nervous it will be too small.
 

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