Time to man up and fix the stiction issue

[C-TANE]

Okay guys... Enough is ENOUGH, I am tired of the stiction issues the little womans 2005 Excursion (05my engine) has had since I installed Innovative's FICM Programmer. I posted back around spring time about how their FICM Programming eliminates the spool vavle warm up cycle. Obviously, there was already stiction prior to the flash but, not detected due to the factroy spool warm up cycle. I tried to work with them to get a pdf flash to add a warm up cycle but, they will not send me one. They did however send me a link to hypertech's sell help page that I haven't been able to make work...

So, that leads me to my question/jorney. I have seen that it is possible to clear up stiction issues with a little sanding or buffing of the spool rod (you tube & forums). I also have been sitting of a box of parts that need to be installed as well (oil cooler, stc fitting, bullet proof EGR, 6.4 bangos, fuel pressure/oil temp sending units, coolant filter kit, and a couple of odds and ends). Anyways, I think I am going to pull off the valve covers while I'm in there and try and clear up the sticky spool valves. Which leads me to the Question.

Is it possible to remove the spool valves without pulling the injectors? I want to make sure I have all the gaskets and o-rings I'm gonna need. I talked to a popular parts sourse and he said that my 05my engine already has the updated stand pipes and dummy plugs. I can't find confirmation anywhere that says this engine has 12mm D plugs. Can anyone confirm that I have some kind of updated dummy plug from the factory?

The Excursion has 180k miles on it and the only thing ever done under the hood was the FICM solder fix and replaced injector #2 (thanks to the FICM).
At the time (2 yrs ago) I only replaced the injector and soldered the FICM so I could drive it off the auction lot. Installing these parts is WAY over due but, as you can imagine I only wanna put her under the knife one time...:grouphug:

 

[webb06]

Sanding/buffing the spool valves does work. I did it to a buddies truck just to try it out. As far as removing them without taking out the injectors I don't think you can. The seal kits aren't expensive at all. Less than $15 a piece.

 

[Gary]

He is correct ^^^, you will have to pull the injectors, and buffing will work, I have also done it. I have a Hickok G2 stiction tester, (check out the U-tube video on it) so I try it on a truck that stiction issues, 7 out of 8 injectors had stiction. So I pull all the injectors and buff the spool valves, put them all back it and retest it, all the injectors were good as far as stiction but 2 cylinders were giving me contribution codes and I had to be replace the injectors.
That Hickok tester will positively tell you what is going on, I use it on all most every truck I work on, but when I find a sticky injector I just replace it with a Ford re-man other wise you may be doing it twice.
FWIW, I have a Snap On Modis and I tried to diagnose stiction, it really didn't work for that, the cylinder contribution test's are all over the place, when I bought the Hickok all the guessing was over.

 

[C-TANE]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate you posting. I looked for Gary's youtube but didn't find it. I did however, find the G2 scanner video. That is a very nice tool for a fella that works on these daily!

Looks like I'm going to just pull em and stop trying to take short cuts. I need to revise my part list. Are their any other o-rings or gaskets I should replace when pulling injectors? I have D plugs and stand pipes on the list and just added injector o-ring kits.

Thanks again guys :thumbsup:

 

[golfer]

180k miles...

count your blessings and invest in a set of Motorcraft injs...they are the only injs with new spools.

think of the spool valve as one cylinder engine...a piston in a cylinder bore.

all the machine work, buffing, etc doesn't matter if you can't regain the piston to bore clearance...(tough to make parts larger by buffing them).

'remanning' spools is equivalent tp trying to rebuild an engine without having oversize pistons...no matter how good your machine work is...you'll still have 'blowby'

the problem with stiction isn't the surface finish of the spool...it's that the spool is being worn undersized in its' bore...as well as the bore being worn oversized.

once the spools are loose...they can get cocked sideways in the bore, and not move when the solenoid is energized...

this is the intermittent skip skip that comes and goes at moderate & steady pedal.

what's even worse...for those that reman these spools...is that they can't detect a sticky spool on a conventional injector flowbench.

ie..fire each injector 1000 shots.

say that one or two injectors are 1-2% low...

did those injectors flow 98% of the volume 100% of the time

or did those injectors flow 100% of the volume 98% of the time...

big effing difference.

if an injector DOES NOT FIRE 2 out of every 100 shots...you're going to have a pissed off customer...

we quit remanning 6.0L spool valves & injectors back in 2006.

every 6.0L injector we build is built from a new Motorcraft injector..for this, and only this reason.

 

[C-TANE]

What Golfer said makes sense. That is why I added buffing to my statement in the original post. After watching the videos of guys trying to fix stiction I thought to myself, good to know exactly what is causing the problem and I would not be sanding the spool rod... My Excursion being a family truckster on the weekends and vacations I cannot see droppin 2K for new injectors if I only have stiction while not running inductive heating cycles with engine oil temp under 150ish. Granted, the injectors may not be firing at 100% effecency.

From what I have seen, it looks like oil residue builds up on the spool valve rod and causes it to stick. An interesting point to be made is that once oil temperature comes up to operating temperature the rods seem to move freely. With this information I think it is worth my time and money to try CLEANING the spool valve rods. Hopefully, some carb cleaner or other chemical in my arsinal will remove the residue without buffing/polishing. I look at it like this, what do I have to lose? If it last a year or two without sticking it is worth it. The only extra cost I am out is injector o-ring kits since I'm already in there replacing dummy plugs... Ok, maybe time and a few select cuss words too.

I'm not an expert by a long shot but, if I clean the spool valve rods and the injectors are running better than now I am ahead of the game! In Golfers post it states 98% 100% of the time or 100% 98% of the time. This makes total and complete sense but, what are mine running at now??? A 6.0 with 180K miles running at 98% either way is a success story to me. Please, don't mis-understand me. I really love the fact that true experts will weigh in on post in the forum. This is why I joined!!! If I was not SOO cheap and or a dyno guy, I could see the benefit in replacing all 8 injectors to get that last 5 horses on my dyno run... Being a weekend family truckster I can't justify 2K in new injectors to gain such a small improvement if any. I am just looking to make the stiction on cold day warm up go away.

 

[golfer]

What Golfer said makes sense. That is why I added buffing to my statement in the original post. After watching the videos of guys trying to fix stiction I thought to myself, good to know exactly what is causing the problem and I would not be sanding the spool rod... My Excursion being a family truckster on the weekends and vacations I cannot see droppin 2K for new injectors if I only have stiction while not running inductive heating cycles with engine oil temp under 150ish. Granted, the injectors may not be firing at 100% effecency.

From what I have seen, it looks like oil residue builds up on the spool valve rod and causes it to stick. An interesting point to be made is that once oil temperature comes up to operating temperature the rods seem to move freely. With this information I think it is worth my time and money to try CLEANING the spool valve rods. Hopefully, some carb cleaner or other chemical in my arsinal will remove the residue without buffing/polishing. I look at it like this, what do I have to lose? If it last a year or two without sticking it is worth it. The only extra cost I am out is injector o-ring kits since I'm already in there replacing dummy plugs... Ok, maybe time and a few select cuss words too.

I'm not an expert by a long shot but, if I clean the spool valve rods and the injectors are running better than now I am ahead of the game! In Golfers post it states 98% 100% of the time or 100% 98% of the time. This makes total and complete sense but, what are mine running at now??? A 6.0 with 180K miles running at 98% either way is a success story to me. Please, don't mis-understand me. I really love the fact that true experts will weigh in on post in the forum. This is why I joined!!! If I was not SOO cheap and or a dyno guy, I could see the benefit in replacing all 8 injectors to get that last 5 horses on my dyno run... Being a weekend family truckster I can't justify 2K in new injectors to gain such a small improvement if any. I am just looking to make the stiction on cold day warm up go away.

stiction on cold startup could be FICm voltage...I'll assume that you've checked FICm voltage WHILE the vehicle is cold (and would be prone to exhibit the above symptoms).

 

[webb06]

stiction on cold startup could be FICm voltage...I'll assume that you've checked FICm voltage WHILE the vehicle is cold (and would be prone to exhibit the above symptoms).

Got a buddies truck in the shop. Has 2 injectors that are a little weak on cold start up. The FICM voltage starts at 48 then once the injectors start chattering it drops to around 42. I've pulled these injectors once to "buff" the spool valves so could it be the FICM causing his problems?

 

[04stroker]

Got a buddies truck in the shop. Has 2 injectors that are a little weak on cold start up. The FICM voltage starts at 48 then once the injectors start chattering it drops to around 42. I've pulled these injectors once to "buff" the spool valves so could it be the FICM causing his problems?

Yes anything under 46v IMO can be a problem.

 

[C-TANE]

I soldered the FICM a couple of years ago and made sure I had 48volts before start up and during cranking after the ID FICM tuning removed the warming cycle... It's easy to check, I will make sure tonight just for piece of mind.

 

[Mdub707]

To clear up some confusion on the "buffing" of the spool valves. It seems in most cases you're trying to remove what appears to be a build-up of gunk on the spool valve. We're not actually removing spool valve material. I haven't done this myself as of yet, so I can't say for certain, but that's what it seems like. It's only 4-6 quick turns in some fine grit sandpaper on a DLC coated part... can't imagine you're really removing spool valve material. Again, haven't done it myself yet though. Going to be trying that method as well.

Of course new reman injectors from Ford are always an easy way out, just more costly.

 

[golfer]

To clear up some confusion on the "buffing" of the spool valves. It seems in most cases you're trying to remove what appears to be a build-up of gunk on the spool valve. We're not actually removing spool valve material. I haven't done this myself as of yet, so I can't say for certain, but that's what it seems like. It's only 4-6 quick turns in some fine grit sandpaper on a DLC coated part... can't imagine you're really removing spool valve material. Again, haven't done it myself yet though. Going to be trying that method as well.

Of course new reman injectors from Ford are always an easy way out, just more costly.

It's not that the (buffing, polishing, cleaning, soaking, kissing, caressing, talking nicely, LOL) is or isn't removing material...

it's the 100k+ miles on the factory spools...

they've been worn undersized, & bores worn oversized by having high pressure engine oil contaminated with carbon pushed through that spool...a few million times

once that material has been eroded...it's gone.

 

[C-TANE]

Thanks guys that makes great sense :thumbup: Now that golfer has made his point clearer, it sounds reasonable. I didn't think that far into it. That's what makes this place great :bowfast:

What I really wanted was inovative to send me the inductive heating tune via PDF or let me pay to ship my FICM to them and back so I doesn't sound like a briggs and straton until it's warm... They have no interest in that... (should have bought PHP)

Looks like my options are, buy new re-man's or try cleaning mine. I'm going to do this, I will clean mine, take pictures, cuss when it hurts, then create a post and keep it updated. If it works others may choose to try it as well...
opcorn:

 

[njjeep]

Any updates on this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mdub707]

I know there's a company working on upgraded spool valves for us, or rather an improved "finish" on the spool valves... not sure how much more I can talk about this, I will ask.