turbo failure, now intermittent no start

bigfords · Feb 11, 2015

Alright here is the chain of events, which I have to believe are related but am not sure.

We were towing a trailer on a trip and my stock turbo failed bad. Shaft broke and am assuming bushing is shot. Had to drive it to the next exit so it was really growling and making noise.

After calling Barder who answered his phone on a friday night, a really good friend of mine drove all the way to Barder and picked up a 38R for me that Barder put together the night before. Then came out to the hotel we stayed in and put the turbo in during single digit weather.

....Now, I have a very intermittent crank, no start condition. I was really under the impression it was IPR related due to the codes I had the first time. They were all relating to ICP control whether the pressure was too high or too low.
I gave my IPR a quick clean and thought I had the problem fixed, but every once in a while the truck won't build oil pressure to start. Has done it while engine was cold and while warm. Its done it 3 times in about 2 weeks or so. One time left me sit at a store...ended up disconnecting the glow plugs and spraying it down with Ether and once the RPMs came up it was fine. No problems rest of the day.
I did some datalogging today on WOT runs...everything looks real good other than my T500 isn't quite keeping up with my thirsty B codes. 2400 ICP or so WOT.

I installed a new Ford IPR yesterday, but when I left work today it cranked for a while. It started after 3 long cranks though. Oil was 100 degrees.

I do this for a living but am a little stumped, mainly due to the fact that when it acts up I'm no where I can give it a good diagnosis.

thoughts?

ToMang07 · Feb 11, 2015

You said you're getting ICP codes and "cleaned" the sensor, was there oil in the sensor? Does it run any better with the ICP sensor unplugged? What are the actual codes? Is it smoking when it's cranking? Ford CPS?

bigfords · Feb 11, 2015

I did have codes, I'll have to check to see if any came back. I cleaned the IPR, not ICP. ICP looks good. Unplugging the ICP sensor so far has not changed anything. No smoke during cranking. Low pressure oil gauge in dash does not come up. Ford CPS.

mandkole · Feb 11, 2015

Clear/check the codes again. After it starts, does it run rough or smooth? Hows the condition of the harness that drives the IPR? Was it acting like this before the turbo R&R?

bigfords · Feb 11, 2015

IPR harness is a thought, did not really think of that. The CEL came on about 20 minutes before the turbo failed, so I don't know what happened first, nor which code it was.
I'll clear them tomorrow.
When truck starts it runs smooth.

ghohouston · Feb 11, 2015

I don't know how many 7.3's I've worked on where the ipr harness has been overlooked, and has bare wires, or the weather pack insulation is basically a paste from diesel eating it up. They can definitely cause issues

bigfords · Feb 11, 2015

I will check this out, probably get a new pigtail as mine looks pretty worn. Would this issue set a circuit code related to IPR?

ghohouston · Feb 11, 2015

It COULD be, could also be from your pump not putting enough pressure out (or a hpo leak), icp sensor/ pigtail issue as well

mandkole · Feb 11, 2015

I'd think its possible...

Also since the start is smooth, the oil supply seems to be consistent and not aerated (as with bleed down). Need to confirm the persistent code.

How is the LP oil pressure? Have you checked it while running?

bigfords · Feb 11, 2015

I agree, since its not running rough etc after start that I don't think it is leak down or air.

ICP sensor or pigtail is possible, but should set a code if it is circuit related as it sends a signal back to the PCM, whereas the IPR is just commanded by the PCM and I don't believe the PCM receives any feedback from the IPR.

Did not check LP oil yet...wheres the best place do do that? Oil pressure sensor I guess...

bigfords · Feb 11, 2015

Anyone know if much metal gets in the oil after a turbo craps out?

mandkole · Feb 11, 2015

bigfords said:
Did not check LP oil yet...wheres the best place do do that? Oil pressure sensor I guess...

yes-- Ive got a cheap harbor freight mechanical gauge to test with.

Arisley · Feb 11, 2015

bigfords said:
I did have codes, I'll have to check to see if any came back. I cleaned the IPR, not ICP. ICP looks good. Unplugging the ICP sensor so far has not changed anything. No smoke during cranking. Low pressure oil gauge in dash does not come up. Ford CPS.

bigfords said:
IPR harness is a thought, did not really think of that. The CEL came on about 20 minutes before the turbo failed, so I don't know what happened first, nor which code it was.
I'll clear them tomorrow.
When truck starts it runs smooth.

bigfords said:
Anyone know if much metal gets in the oil after a turbo craps out?

You tore up a turbo shaft, lots of shavings get in there.
If I unplugged an ICP sensor and nothing changed, I would suspect said ICP sensor. Especially if the CEL lit up 20 minutes before the turbo failed.

I think the ICP failed because of metal fragment small enough to get through the filter (therefore I also think the motor is fine), but big enough to jack with a sensor. Not sure though, cause I am just an old shade tree mechanic.

bigfords · Feb 12, 2015

This is surely a possibility.

When I say that I have unplugged the ICP with no change, this is only while the truck was not starting. With it unplugged I believe it should command 725psi which should not affect the ability to build oil pressure.

Shoot the sensor probably is the original... 220,000 miles, wouldn't hurt to replace it I suppose.

bad12jr · Feb 14, 2015

Does it have any problems when cold or just hot? Could have a leaking injector o ring. If you have a filter with a water drain, open it to a clear container and check the color. Had some new ones fail and cause similar problems ( not alliant ). Even put a t500 thinking the hpop was going south do to number readings.

2000wa250 · Feb 17, 2015

bigfords said:
I did have codes, I'll have to check to see if any came back. I cleaned the IPR, not ICP. ICP looks good. Unplugging the ICP sensor so far has not changed anything. No smoke during cranking. Low pressure oil gauge in dash does not come up. Ford CPS.

You said low pressure gauge on the dash doesn't come up....is this when its not starting only?

That gauge is simply a switch. If you get 8 psi in the res, it comes up, if you have under 8 psi in the res the light comes on and it doesn't come up.

For checking lpop I'd either put the sensor in the inspection port at the top of the hpop res or in the test port in the oil filter housing