What woudl cause low pressure oil pump to get torn up?

DZL JIM · Aug 12, 2013

I have an '05 here that came in dead, and apart, diagnosed with a lifter failure that wiped out the oil pump. No problem, seen it a bunch of times. So we pulled the motor and got it apart enough to have all the lifters out. ALL lifters look perfect, nothing at all wrong with any of them. Engine turns over fine, no debris in the oil pan, very little slime on the cam sensor and oil drain plug.

What, other than a needle bearing from a lifter, could have gone through the oil pump to cause the exact kind of failure?
I can't find a thing wrong with this motor visually, still debating on pulling the rods and crank out for complete overhaul, but I'd really like to know if anyone has seen this before, that wasn't a lifter needle bearing.

Thanks.

webb06 · Aug 12, 2013

I've heard of mechanics dropping a torx bit down into the pan when removing the oil rails off the injectors. And then those getting chewed up by the oil pump. Never figured they could get passed the screen on the pickup tube but I guess it happens.

Do the marks on the pump look exactly like a needle bearing usually does?

DZL JIM · Aug 12, 2013

webb06 said:
Do the marks on the pump look exactly like a needle bearing usually does?

Same thing, only different.

We have several oil pumps here with the grooves in them from the needle bearings, this one has the grooves but they are curved and twisted.
I'll try to get some pics posted.

MorganY · Aug 12, 2013

Whats the previous history of the truck? When you took it apart, could you tell if someone has been in it before?

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DZL JIM · Aug 12, 2013

DZL JIM · Aug 12, 2013

Younger1993 said:
Whats the previous history of the truck? When you took it apart, could you tell if someone has been in it before?

Yeah, it's been worked on, has studs and new gaskets done by back-yard guy, oil cooler, stc and dummy plugs/pipes done at Ford (all this work I was told by owner and showed receipts, and confirmed parts there on tear-down). Supposedly new IPR, too, beyond that supposed to be 100k mile engine, but I don't take anyone's word on stuff like that (truck has 230,XXX).

MorganY · Aug 12, 2013

DZL JIM said:
Yeah, it's been worked on, has studs and new gaskets done by back-yard guy, oil cooler, stc and dummy plugs/pipes done at Ford (all this work I was told by owner and showed receipts, and confirmed parts there on tear-down). Supposedly new IPR, too, beyond that supposed to be 100k mile engine, but I don't take anyone's word on stuff like that (truck has 230,XXX).

Doesnt have the characteristics of a needle bearing....never seen one like that before

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webb06 · Aug 12, 2013

Definitely not a needle bearing. Looks like a snap ring, but I don't recall there being anything like that on these engines

Mdub707 · Aug 12, 2013

Wrist pin circlip? That is an odd one, not sure what else would even look like that shape? What size is that mark roughly?

webb06 · Aug 12, 2013

Mdub707 said:
Wrist pin circlip? That is an odd one, not sure what else would even look like that shape? What size is that mark roughly?

Ehhh that could be. Be tough for it to get through the pick up screen but possible

ghohouston · Aug 12, 2013

Those sure do look strange! Ive worked on quite a few 6.0's that have dropped needle bearings out of lifters (our guys beat the piss out of their company trucks and never change oil on time) but never one like that. May be worth pulling engine to check inside the pan for the culprit...

Mdub707 · Aug 12, 2013

webb06 said:
Ehhh that could be. Be tough for it to get through the pick up screen but possible

You wouldn't think anything should be getting through there, but we know it happens haha.

I'd be interested to see what you find out it is.

DZL JIM · Aug 12, 2013

Mdub707 said:
Wrist pin circlip? That is an odd one, not sure what else would even look like that shape? What size is that mark roughly?

Not sure what measurement you need, the pics show how small it is relative to the pump lobes. I can try and measure with calipers if you want.

ghohouston said:
May be worth pulling engine to check inside the pan for the culprit...

Yeah, the motor is out, it's the only way to actually pull the rear lifters due to the branch tubes and changing the cam if needed (which we thought was).
Nothing in the pan, very little gray slime anywhere.

We'll be pulling the pistons/rods hopefully tomorrow for inspection. I'll let ya'll know what we find, any other thoughts are greatly appreciated.

907DAVE · Aug 12, 2013

Could it be the circlip from the top of a lifter? Of course the lifter would have just fallen apart as soon as the pushrod came out. Maybe remnants from a previous failure?

Mdub707 · Aug 13, 2013

DZL JIM said:
Not sure what measurement you need, the pics show how small it is relative to the pump lobes. I can try and measure with calipers if you want.

Seeing as I've never actually had an LPOP in my hands, I have no clue how large it is, so the size reference is not existent for me. I was just curious what size the damaged section is... then just try and find a circlip in the system that is similar in size. Just thinking out loud.

907DAVE said:
Maybe remnants from a previous failure?

That could be a possibility as well...

DZL JIM · Aug 15, 2013

Engine is down to bare block and I can't find a thing wrong or missing. The bearings have pretty good score marks from whatever was in the oil, though.

The marks on the oil pump are maybe 3/8" long.

I have no clue what it's from, at this point I'm just going to put new bearings in and get it back together. :shrug:

POWER-STRUCK · Aug 15, 2013

Did you pull the lpop pressure relief valve and inspect that spring? It is about the same diameter even though it shouldn't be able to get to the pump

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