Why 175/30% vs 160/100%

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

I was finally able to get back to the dyno to get this info collected. I get this question everyday, "what is the difference between your 175/30 and others stage 2's"(160/100% to be exact).

Well here is what we did to help show. First we took a 97 stock and installed intake, exhaust, 160/100%. This truck is a manual trans truck, this being our biggest variable.

Second we installed our 175/30%, intake, exhaust on a 96 with an automatic trans. Both trucks run no limit tuning.

The conclusion was we saw a diff of 14 hp between to the two trucks. The smoke was greatly reduced on the 175/30% truck by a huge amount. My personal feelings are the difference in the transmissions is near as great as the 14hp difference.

We still offer a 175/80% injector for those that want just every last drop of hp available from 175cc. But we still sell way more of the 175/30% and a lot of that is due to the fact we offer these for less than the 175/80% injector price. Nearly as much as $300 under some brand comparables. A lot of customers are happy to get nearly stg2 power for the amount of money they spend.

 

[liquidlounge]

is the 175/30 a hybrid? I know the 160/30 is not. What would the perfomance differences be between those two; not just peak HP. thanks for the info!

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

No the 175/30 is not a hybrid. It has a slightly increased stroke over the 160/30. This comparison is between the 175/30 we now offer verses the 160/100 many others offer.

The differences between a 160cc injector and a 175cc injector would be minimal with using the same nozzle.

 

[bruce]

Just seems like the 80% nozzle would get the fuel in faster and reduce cylinder pressures, egt, and smoke. The shorter PW should help out ICP as well.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

Just how short of pw do you think you are running or even need? Not being smart, but ALOT of propaganda has been spread for a long time.

What if I told you a 175/30 and a 175/80 can empty the same 175cc of fuel in the same amount of time up to 2500 rpms. Same pw.

The only time the 80 will shine is above 2500 rpm.

 

[4duggan]

Tuned in for this one.

 

[backwoodsboy]

Which direction was the 14hp variance in? Isn't clear in the original post.
Both of them in 1:1, with TC being locked on the auto?

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

Which direction was the 14hp variance in? Isn't clear in the original post.
Both of them in 1:1, with TC being locked on the auto?

Sorry cant believe I missed that. Yes the 175/30% was 14 hp under the 160/100%.

And yes 1:1 and TCI locked.

 

[JD3020]

Could you post up the graphs so we can see the overall power comparison, instead of just peak?

 

[CSIPSD]

I am a huge fan of the 160/100 combo, because its predictable...

I ran Swamps 175/173's years ago, and while they were fast, they were smokey as hell... Of course tuning has come leaps and bounds in just the last 5 years.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

I am a huge fan of the 160/100 combo, because its predictable...

I ran Swamps 175/173's years ago, and while they were fast, they were smokey as hell... Of course tuning has come leaps and bounds in just the last 5 years.

One of the biggest reasons i personally feel the 175/173 was so smokey was the spray pattern of the inline international nozzle that was used on them.

And i am in no way saying the 160/100 is a bad injector. I have sold numerous sets of them over the years. But what we see on the flowbench and what the dyno says to me is enough.

 

[RedSmokey]

I was finally able to get back to the dyno to get this info collected. I get this question everyday, "what is the difference between your 175/30 and others stage 2's"(160/100% to be exact).

Well here is what we did to help show. First we took a 97 stock and installed intake, exhaust, 160/100%. This truck is a manual trans truck, this being our biggest variable.

Second we installed our 175/30%, intake, exhaust on a 96 with an automatic trans. Both trucks run no limit tuning.

The conclusion was we saw a diff of 14 hp between to the two trucks. The smoke was greatly reduced on the 175/30% truck by a huge amount. My personal feelings are the difference in the transmissions is near as great as the 14hp difference.

We still offer a 175/80% injector for those that want just every last drop of hp available from 175cc. But we still sell way more of the 175/30% and a lot of that is due to the fact we offer these for less than the 175/80% injector price. Nearly as much as $300 under some brand comparables. A lot of customers are happy to get nearly stg2 power for the amount of money they spend.

I admit I am not a wealth of knowledge on powerstrokes... But seems like there could be even more variables (that you may not know) outside of the transmission. Every truck is different and runs different. No offense to you or your buisness, but IMO that test doesnt necessarily prove much. The only true way I could see testing those injectors head to head would be running both those injectors in the same motor/truck. Just my .02

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Another fairly large variable i see is in the tuning. I realize it is not possible to leave tuning identical, but it just seems to me that could play a large roll.

What was the HPOP doing? With a lack of HPO wouldnt that make the 100% more smokey?

I've always been a fan of having more nozzle than you need, but everyone looks at it differently

 

[CSIPSD]

One of the biggest reasons i personally feel the 175/173 was so smokey was the spray pattern of the inline international nozzle that was used on them.

And i am in no way saying the 160/100 is a bad injector. I have sold numerous sets of them over the years. But what we see on the flowbench and what the dyno says to me is enough.

Oh I agree on the 175/173... But that was also 6-8 years ago!

 

[907DAVE]

What was the actual HP numbers?

 

[bruce]

to me, it seems like whether there is .5 or 4ms of pw the the 30% nozzle should flow 30% more fuel in the allotted time and the 80% nozzles should flow 80% more in the allotted time

 

[CurtisF]

Another fairly large variable i see is in the tuning. I realize it is not possible to leave tuning identical, but it just seems to me that could play a large roll.

Given the nearly same size injectors, it's predictable that the peak power would be nearly equal. Given the same tuning, it's predictable that the larger nozzle would smoke more.

Dial the tuning in for the larger nozzle, and the smoke will be reduced.