Need ideas.. No start

Truck Is a 97, mods are in my sig. The truck was running fine I drove it home and shut it off, went to start it the next morning and it wouldn't start. I changed the CPS with a BW sensor just to rule it out and still no start.

My initial thought was my srp 1 took a carp. At the moment I have no access to a scanner so I'm working with what I have Available. Hpo res was full and I unplugged the icp and still no start.

I went ahead a got a mechanical guage and length of hydraulic hose to thread into the hpo rail and I'm getting zero psi on the guage. So I think my srp is most likely the issue. I changed it out with my stock hpop and its doing the same exact thing.

I even cranked the truck with the plug out of the hpo rail and no oil came out, the oil rail is actually appears empty. My ipr is maybe 7 months old and was replaced with a ford unit so it's unlikely that's it bad .. But anything possible. My train of thought is the PCM is telling the ipr to stay wide open. Any ideas on what would cause this ?? I'm working on getting a scan guage or AE ASAP so I can monitor what the PCM is doing.

Thanks,

AJ

Do you have lube oil pressure?

PSDEng said:

Do you have lube oil pressure?

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Yes, the LPOP was just changed a few weeks ago too with a melling.

The tach is moving when I crank and no change when I pulled the chip out.

Just because it's new, does not mean you have lube oil pressure.

Might want to pull the IPR and check it. Make sure it is plugged in and the tin nut is on there.

IPR could be bad.
if pump dies it spews brass fillings that could jam the ipr.
its unlikely both pumps died.
is oil getting to the pump? the 97 rez is more annoying then the newer ones with a lid to check that unlikely scenario

Arisley said:

Just because it's new, does not mean you have lube oil pressure.

Might want to pull the IPR and check it. Make sure it is plugged in and the tin nut is on there.

Click to expand...

I already have about 1000 miles on the new lpop. I'm
Also getting oil pressure on the dash.

m j said:

IPR could be bad.
if pump dies it spews brass fillings that could jam the ipr.
its unlikely both pumps died.
is oil getting to the pump? the 97 rez is more annoying then the newer ones with a lid to check that unlikely scenario

Click to expand...

How do I check if oil is getting to the pump? I'm assuming since the hpo res is full it's gettin oil. I have my original ipr ill swap back on there. Also I'm sure the stock pump works fine, it was still doing a good job when I pulled it. Could a bad IDM cause this to happen ?

I changed the idm( from a super duty not sure if this makes a difference ). Put the old ipr back on and still nothing. I find it odd when I pull the plug from the hpo res its pretty much completely full to the top. The truck is also cranking pretty fast. Still zero psi on the mechanical guage in the hpo rail.

OK lets go thru the list of things:

* No start:

* You checked pressure in the actually HPOP rail even pulling one of the port plugs and no oil pressure flowing out of it.

* Your HPOP res was visually confirmed to be full and you can see you are getting pressure in the HPOP res as the idiot gauge bounced during cranking so you have confirmed LPOP pressure and flow.

* You tried two different HPOPS ( stock and the SRP 1) both gave the same symptoms and results.

To me the one common denominator that sticks out is the IPR. New, used, or otherwise, its the part you switched over between both HPOPS and you got the same no oil pressure in the rails. Its certainly more likley that then the gear in the front cover is broke and not spinning the HPOP shaft


Pull the IPR apart and check to see if its clogged. Also look in the IPR port of the SRP1 and see if you see any shavings etc in there. IT could be that you got a bad IPR and it took a dump. But I would start with using the OEM HPOP as you know it was good I assume when it was removed and just in case it was the SRP taking a dump you do not want to dump any more metal into the system. If the IPR looks fine then go get another one ( maybe borrow one if possible) and try it to see if that fixes it. If so there is your answer.

It really does sound like a IPR though to me vs a pump issue.

TARM said:

OK lets go thru the list of things:

* No start:

* You checked pressure in the actually HPOP rail even pulling one of the port plugs and no oil pressure flowing out of it.

Correct

* Your HPOP res was visually confirmed to be full and you can see you are getting pressure in the HPOP res as the idiot gauge bounced during cranking so you have confirmed LPOP pressure and flow.

Correct
* You tried two different HPOPS ( stock and the SRP 1) both gave the same symptoms and results.

Correct

To me the one common denominator that sticks out is the IPR. New, used, or otherwise, its the part you switched over between both HPOPS and you got the same no oil pressure in the rails. Its certainly more likley that then the gear in the front cover is broke and not spinning the HPOP shaft

I replaced the one I had on it with my original IPR which was in working condition, I changed it because the electromagnetic connection broke off while I was working on it, But the IPR valve was still working fine. Is the gear breaking a common issue? ill pull the inspection cover off tomorrow and inspect the Gear

Pull the IPR apart and check to see if its clogged. Also look in the IPR port of the SRP1 and see if you see any shavings etc in there. IT could be that you got a bad IPR and it took a dump. But I would start with using the OEM HPOP as you know it was good I assume when it was removed and just in case it was the SRP taking a dump you do not want to dump any more metal into the system. If the IPR looks fine then go get another one ( maybe borrow one if possible) and try it to see if that fixes it. If so there is your answer.

It really does sound like a IPR though to me vs a pump issue.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Above In BOLD.

So you have trying two IPRs and HPOPs all of which had confirmed to be working at one point or another. What are the chances all are bad?


I would confirm a few things:

Pull one of the Rail plugs from the other head and check the level or if it is also empty after cranking a fair amount a full HPOP res of course. Pick one back from the front so its sitting lower and should have oil in it.

If you do not have the mech gauge and fitting to deadhead the end of one of the hpop outlet hose ends you could put a section of larger diameter hose over that hose end ( garden hose might work) Then take the other end and drop it into a trash can. Crank the engine over and oil should shoot out.

One of those will at least confirm the HPOP pump is flowing oil..

If you try both and neither is flowing oil via the above; Check the shaft of the HPOP thru the inspection port and make sure it is turning with the gear and can not spin independent of the gear i.e. Make sure everything is turning as it should be.

If pumps are confirmed to pump oil and you find one head is leaking oil from the rails then you can pull the VC and use a grease gun and some fittings to pressurize that specific head HPOP rail. Blown o ring, oil blowing thru a injector, maybe a galley plug fell out. etc..

Finally got it on the AE today. Code P1283 came up. From my research its a wiring issue, IPR or PCM. I'm Thinking its a PCM to be honest which sucks because mine is only a year and a half old. Does anyone know what would cause such premature failure?

poor chip connection shorted the pcm? Where did you get the PCM from? Could also have a short in the harness that fried the PCM

superpsd said:

poor chip connection shorted the pcm? Where did you get the PCM from? Could also have a short in the harness that fried the PCM

Click to expand...

PCM was a ford reman I believe . The chip was secured with tape so I doubt that was the issue. I'm gonna OHM some wires out today.

if you have a DVOM/voltmeter, you can monitor ICP voltage while cranking...

if you have LPOP (on dash gauge)...and are not making any/significant HPOPressure...then it's either pump, IPR or a leak in the HPOil system...including injs, inj o-rings, inj poppet valves, and the 2 plugs under the VC's (bottom side of HPOil rail)...or the gear simply isn't turning the pump shaft.

any leak in the HPOil system will have the exact same result...no/insufficient ICP pressure.

most SRP's we've seen fail allow metal (internal springs from the pump defect/failure) work their way into the injector poppet valves...

so don't rule out injectors.

if you had poppet valves hung open from pump debris...the HPOil rail would gravity bleed down (through the injs) back to the pan.

IF you've confirmed a lack of ICP pressure...then you can crank with injs disconnected electrically...to see/visually where the oil is going.

ICP voltage/pressure relationship is approximately

1.0v = 750psi...so you'll need about 0.65vdc while cranking to even fire the injs/mechanically.

as a side note...unplugging the ICP sensor does NOT give you mechancial pressure, LOL...it simply defaults the PCM value for ICP.

leave the sensor/wiring hooked up...and monitor ICP while cranking.

The ICP sensor, will have a 3 wire harness that plugs into it. To check the voltage (ICP “pressure”), you will need
to leave the harness plugged INTO the sensor, and probe the appropriate wire with your
voltmeter lead (other lead to a ground point on engine, or neg. battery terminal).
Of the 3 wires, one wire is going to have a constant ~ 4-5.0vdc reading (with the key on, engine
off), one wire will be ‘ground’ (check continuity to other grounds)…and the last wire (the one
you want to check) will have a variable voltage which varies linearly with pressure

FYI. .. I had a FORD ipr crap the bed after 8 miles. .

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Thanks for the replys guys. Hopefully after some more testing ill get it running Monday. I gotta figure out the AE software a Little better but it's awesome so far!

My thought was maybe a rail plug or injector let go. Obviously something is making the rails empty. If you can confirm the HPOP is sending oil out the hose lines and you already checked the rail and found it empty. I would check the other rail that you did not check. If its empty as well I would think that would point more to something with the HPOP feeding the rails as what would be the chance of both banks having something let go to cause the rails to drain? The fact you tried two different HPOP and IPRs makes me think its electric as Dave( golfer)gave you the procedure to confirm or its something at the heads such as injector or blown plug.

I finally got to do some work on my truck today. When I blocked off the driver side HPO line It started right up so this told me I had a massive leak on the drivers side head. Upon further inspection I pulled the valve cover off and checked the oil galley plugs.

Next I pulled the injectors. On the first one I pulled I noticed the Top O ring was ripped. Now I thought I got lucky and got the bad O ring first try. I decided to pull the remaining three injectors just to be sure.

Every top 2 O rings on every injector was ripped. I replaced the maybe 5 K miles ago with new alliant O rings. Is it possible I got a defective set? What would cause all 4 of them to rip?

did you lube the o rings with oil before installation? ive NEVER ripped an injector o ring upon install out of the hundreds of 7.3 and 6.0 injectors i have replaced.