200% nozzle = great tow pig

[TARM]

Right that's sort of my point. As rpms grow even when you remove all the injector delay etc... as Carles stated you would still been increasing the BTDC SOI to account for the actual properties of the combustion event. Now as you have stated Matt, there is a 24 degree hard limit @ 3k rpm to hit the bowl. At 4k that limit maybe 28-30. But will we not at some rpm actually be hitting the actual physical static max degree you can fire the injector removing all the delay etc and no longer stay inside the bowl? This is why I asked about the static limit. I understand if i am starting to tread into info that has taken person individual work to gain and its not going to be freely released publically. In that case I am good. Prsonally I would never want the stress or responsibilty to ever tune someone elses truck. I think there arelready plenty of tuners out there. Buti still as you know like to understand how things work.


Matt, Charles, or anyone that knows their info to be correct:

Something I have been wondering and can not find any talk about when it comes to heui injectors or anything outside mechanical injector nozzles. Injectors when they fire creat a cone of spray. This cone is at a specific angle or degree. When you switch between say stock 7 holes and then edm 80%, edm eh 100%, edm 200%, edm eh 300% ,edm 400%, edm 600%, etc... is not the actual cone angle of spray pattern from the nozzle effected? Or are these adjusted as part of manf so they are all the same (I would think not but do not know). Obviously if the angle is changed this is going to effect the entire table of where you can or can not hit the bowl properly etc.. or is this all a nonfactor?

 

[Gearhead]

the piston position to hit the bowl BTDC doesn't change since it is about piston position. Now the motion of the piston can cause fuel wash outside the bowl even if you do hit in the bowl in some cases.

As far as i know, the nozzles are tightly held to stock spray angles unless the bowl configuration changes dramatically.

 

[Charles]

the piston position to hit the bowl BTDC doesn't change since it is about piston position. Now the motion of the piston can cause fuel wash outside the bowl even if you do hit in the bowl in some cases.

As far as i know, the nozzles are tightly held to stock spray angles unless the bowl configuration changes dramatically.

In terms of what was initially being discussed yes, the SOI point to stay within the bowl doesn't change with variable rpm when looked at in a static sense. However... as you probably already know, in reality there is actually some measurable variance in the maximum timing that will stay in the bowl when the engine is actually at these rpm, as the piston is actually moving toward the nozzle at great speed when the injector fires. Given a finite fuel spray velocity, a higher engine operating rpm actually brings the bowl closer to the nozzle quicker... in reality allowing for SOI values that would actually spray outside the bowl if fired static, to land well inside the bowl when the engine is actually running at these speeds.

 

[TARM]

In terms of what was initially being discussed yes, the SOI point to stay within the bowl doesn't change with variable rpm when looked at in a static sense. However... as you probably already know, in reality there is actually some measurable variance in the maximum timing that will stay in the bowl when the engine is actually at these rpm, as the piston is actually moving toward the nozzle at great speed when the injector fires. Given a finite fuel spray velocity, a higher engine operating rpm actually brings the bowl closer to the nozzle quicker... in reality allowing for SOI values that would actually spray outside the bowl if fired static, to land well inside the bowl when the engine is actually running at these speeds.

Yes I also understood that as I mentioned it as one of the possible variables. But I was not sure without doing the math of spray vel and piston speed if it was significant enough to be worth measuring. Obviously as RPMs climb higher and higher it becomes more significant.

 

[Delta161]

So what kind of hpop is needed to run these injectors. Could you get away with something like a t500 or would you need something bigger

 

[TARM]

200% you need something a bit large IMO i.e. SRP1 or any of the big oil unless you are running them tuned way back and the tuner adjusts for it.

 

[Chvyrkr]

Tuner adjusting for a stock pump with a 200% would just about have to be done by starting very low adding .1 to PW at a time and waiting for ICP to drop. You'd leave quite a bit on the table IMO.

 

[genie144]

How many posting in this thread tune their own trucks?

Sam

 

[CurtisF]

Tuner adjusting for a stock pump with a 200% would just about have to be done by starting very low adding .1 to PW at a time and waiting for ICP to drop. You'd leave quite a bit on the table IMO.

That's exactly what I did.

Except I wasn't waiting on ICP to drop.... instead I was watching dyno numbers. Having PMR's, I was bumping PW by .1 ms on each run until I got up over 400 hp.

Max PW I've ever run is 2.4 ms. That was good enough for my lifted 8000 lbs truck to run a 14.4 in the quarter mile at high altitude, and still maintain a little over 3000 psi ICP on a stock 17* pump.

 

[CurtisF]

How many posting in this thread tune their own trucks?

Sam

I do :lame2:

 

[Aljay]

I bet AA code Injectors, With 200% nozzles, would be easyer to tune at a idle, then the hybrids!!!

And you might have less smoke troubles at a idle..

This is a bad idea.... the idle issue would be worse and it would make less power even if both injectors were 160cc.

Soo Im screwed if I wanted to put a 200 nozzle on my 230 A codes then ?

 

[Dieselfever]

Soo Im screwed if I wanted to put a 200 nozzle on my 230 A codes then ?

Not if you changed your plungers and barrels to 7.1mm stuff also :gun: :rockon:

-Michael

 

[Aljay]

Not if you changed your plungers and barrels to 7.1mm stuff also :gun: :rockon:

-Michael

All I remember is these are stroked 230cc A codes

 

[Cat_rebel]

Made a 27° cold start vid of my old bitch this morning. Started up & idled/drove just like it does in 50° weather. 275/200s from Nate & tunes from Matt, still on stock 15° HPOP.
Sadly you can't see a whole lot but it doesn't really smoke more then the old worn out stockers did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXWHaNsRMs

 

[Dmstrucks02]

Made a 27° cold start vid of my old bitch this morning. Started up & idled/drove just like it does in 50° weather. 275/200s from Nate & tunes from Matt, still on stock 15° HPOP.
Sadly you can't see a whole lot but it doesn't really smoke more then the old worn out stockers did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXWHaNsRMs

That thing starts quicker than mine in 27*

 

[Tom S]

Not bad better then I would have thought but one of those cylinders sounds a little more pissed then the others. I do like how quick it started. Everything is obviously on the right track.

 

[TrailerHauler]

Starts quite a bit happier then mine does with stage I's!

 

[Cat_rebel]

Not bad better then I would have thought but one of those cylinders sounds a little more pissed then the others. I do like how quick it started. Everything is obviously on the right track.

Hard telling Tom, it kinda sounded like one was more pissed then the other with stock sticks. It will haze sometimes at idle but that's one of the down falls of the 200% nozzle. Other then that it runs down the road fine & gets around 16mpg with normal driving. Last tank was closer to 13mpg with aggressive driving & winter Diesel fuel.

 

[Gearhead]

Made a 27° cold start vid of my old bitch this morning. Started up & idled/drove just like it does in 50° weather. 275/200s from Nate & tunes from Matt, still on stock 15° HPOP.
Sadly you can't see a whole lot but it doesn't really smoke more then the old worn out stockers did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXWHaNsRMs

Ive seen some 100% nozzles that are way worse on a cold start than that.

 

[woodduck97]

Cat does your truck buck going down the road?