2015-2016 Super Duty Active Regeneration Jack Hammer Valve Issue

[lincolnlocker]

But what about other extreme heat scenarios and why doesn't it happen there?

Keep in mind this happens at very specific RPM's and engine loads. There are other operating ranges where you still get the same heat and expansion, but the issue is not present.

regens(on dash notifications) take up to 30 min. that is the reported time this is happening correct? when else does it reach that heat and back pressure for longer than just a couple minutes?


btw, im not arguing one side or the other. im just trying to wrap my head around both sides of the stories..




this reminds me of what happens on the ole 7.3 when one uses the ebpv as a brake with stock valve springs. back pressure holds valves open...

live life full throttle

 

[BuiltPowerStrokeTough]

It has been mentioned several times that this issue applies to the 15-16 models. But that is also not the case. There is a TSB for the exact same thing on the 11-14s as well. Just thought Id throw that in there that it is not just an issue with 15-16s.

Oh and Mike, I about spit my coffee out while reading through the thread this morning when I got to your comment about the witch hunt LOL

 

[Gearhead]

Aug 11 2015 1767-2015-2016 F-Super Duty Vehicles Equipped With 6.7L Diesel - Runs Rough During Exhaust Regeneration Process - Updated Calibration Due 1Q 2016

Some 2015-2016 F-Super Duty pickups equipped with 6.7L diesel engines may exhibit a runs rough condition during exhaust regeneration. This condition may occur when the vehicle is idled for prolonged periods of time or when frequently driven short distances that don’t allow the regeneration cycle to complete. A calibration to address this concern is expected to be available in late March 2016. Ford customers that insist on a repair it is allowable to perform TSB 15-0124 until the calibration TSB becomes available. To avoid a repeat occurrence customers need to be reminded to follow the drive cycle recommendations in the “Customer Information Sheet” that is included with TSB 15-0124.

End of Bulletin

TSB 15-0124 allows to replace the 8 exhaust valves and valve seals for owners who demand a repair.

It sounds like they are trying to make it look like the customer is doing something wrong... Also, just replacing the valves won't do any good if the guide clearance is too tight....

 

[Maryland dieselnick]

You are correct. They have tried putting it off on short trips, shutting off during regen ect. It has happened to owners where non of those were the case.
It's a quality control issue with the guides with some being to tight. Some have left marks some had very little evidence of impact. This is due to it being stiction and not a dead seizure. It takes in most cases very little effort from the piston to knock it free from its static state in a straight up push, where it has stored energy from the spring trying to pull it closed.

 

[JMart]

Does the backpressure increase during a regen cycle? If so would this cause the sticking at low rpm's to be more likely?

 

[drunk on diesel]

I looked all through that TSB for mention of the 11-14's that were exhibiting this issue, but couldn't find it

but then I've never heard of it being an issue on 11-14's until earlier this morning.

I have heard a lot about the 15's though

Aug 11 2015 1767-2015-2016 F-Super Duty Vehicles Equipped With 6.7L Diesel - Runs Rough During Exhaust Regeneration Process - Updated Calibration Due 1Q 2016

Some 2015-2016 F-Super Duty pickups equipped with 6.7L diesel engines may exhibit a runs rough condition during exhaust regeneration. This condition may occur when the vehicle is idled for prolonged periods of time or when frequently driven short distances that don’t allow the regeneration cycle to complete. A calibration to address this concern is expected to be available in late March 2016. Ford customers that insist on a repair it is allowable to perform TSB 15-0124 until the calibration TSB becomes available. To avoid a repeat occurrence customers need to be reminded to follow the drive cycle recommendations in the “Customer Information Sheet” that is included with TSB 15-0124.

End of Bulletin

TSB 15-0124 allows to replace the 8 exhaust valves and valve seals for owners who demand a repair.

It sounds like they are trying to make it look like the customer is doing something wrong... Also, just replacing the valves won't do any good if the guide clearance is too tight....

 

[drunk on diesel]

Does the backpressure increase during a regen cycle? If so would this cause the sticking at low rpm's to be more likely?

well, there's combustion occurring during the exhaust stroke and the engine is "spitting hot fire" at the filter, so I could see how that would increase back pressure...

but I think it's more of a case of that sustained hot fire swelling the exhaust valve stems combined with lower RPM operation causing it.

vs. high peak EGT during a high RPM passing maneuver, for example

 

[nchighcountry]

regens(on dash notifications) take up to 30 min. that is the reported time this is happening correct? when else does it reach that heat and back pressure for longer than just a couple minutes?

FYI the back pressure gets relatively high 30 seconds into the regeneration and stays high during the entire burn event.

Once the regeneration stops, it will drop back down.

The Forescan App and Data Logger clearly shows this.

Of course Ford thinks it should be kept as a secret from us that want to understand what is going on with our trucks.

 

[lincolnlocker]

FYI the back pressure gets relatively high 30 seconds into the regeneration and stays high during the entire burn event.

Once the regeneration stops, it will drop back down.

The Forescan App and Data Logger clearly shows this.

Of course Ford thinks it should be kept as a secret from us that want to understand what is going on with our trucks.

correct

live life full throttle

 

[BuiltPowerStrokeTough]

I looked all through that TSB for mention of the 11-14's that were exhibiting this issue, but couldn't find it

but then I've never heard of it being an issue on 11-14's until earlier this morning.

I have heard a lot about the 15's though

Heres the TSB. It has since changed to included the 11-14s. Also, check this thread out too. We discussed this a while ago on with someone who was having this problem on the 11-14s.

http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54655

TSB-
2011-2013 F-Super Duty - 6.7L Diesel Engine - Runs Rough/Misfire During Exhaust Regeneration Process
See TSB: 13-05-09 for details. 13-05-09

Some 2011-2013 F-Super Duty vehicles equipped with a 6.7L diesel engine may exhibit a runs rough/misfire condition only during the exhaust regeneration process. This condition typically occurs on light throttle tip in between 64-113 Km/h (40-70 MPH), and will not set diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs). The concern may be intermittent and a knocking noise may be present during the concern.

ACTION:

Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Step 1- Did the customer indicate the message center displayed a Cleaning Exhaust Filter message prior to the concern?
Yes - proceed to Step 2.
No - this article does not apply. Refer to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual for normal diagnosis.

Step 2- Using Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) or equivalent, retrieve DTCs from the Powertrain Control Module. Are DTC's present?
Yes - this article does not apply. Refer to the PC/ED manual for normal diagnosis.
No - proceed to Step 3.

Step 3- Remove the left hand cylinder head. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-01.
Replace all eight (8) exhaust valves and valve seals.

 

[drunk on diesel]

Heres the TSB. It has since changed to included the 11-14s. Also, check this thread out too. We discussed this a while ago on with someone who was having this problem on the 11-14s.

Thank you sir!

 

[BuiltPowerStrokeTough]

Either way, seems like a GREAT way to decrease the chance of this happening is simply adding a downstream dosing injector like the rest of the industry rather than try to spray fuel on an exhaust stroke. This would also greatly decrease the chance of these cracked valve failures happening which everyone seems to say is caused from glow plug tips breaking and causing the damage. Im not buying the glow plugs as a root cause in a lot of those failures. Maybe some, but definitely not the majority.

 

[BuiltPowerStrokeTough]

Thank you sir!

No problem man :toast:

 

[drunk on diesel]

Nobody uses a downstream injector.

Dodge certainly doesn't, and although I read in diesel power magazine that GM does, I've seen no evidence of it.

Either way, seems like a GREAT way to decrease the chance of this happening is simply adding a downstream dosing injector like the rest of the industry rather than try to spray fuel on an exhaust stroke. This would also greatly decrease the chance of these cracked valve failures happening which everyone seems to say is caused from glow plug tips breaking and causing the damage. Im not buying the glow plugs as a root cause in a lot of those failures. Maybe some, but definitely not the majority.

 

[sootie]

GM did on the late 07's. not sure if/when it stopped. they may be referring to the urea injector tho :shrug:

 

[sledhead_24_7]

GM went to a injector in the down pipe in 11 or 12, when ever they went urea injection. Prior to that they used exhaust stroke like everyone else. At least that is my understanding.

 

[sootie]

GM went to a injector in the down pipe in 11 or 12, when ever they went urea injection. Prior to that they used exhaust stroke like everyone else. At least that is my understanding.

you are correct...i got my years mixed up

 

[sledhead_24_7]

you are correct...i got my years mixed up

That's what I thought, thanks for confirming that.

 

[drunk on diesel]

I didn't realize that it was in the LML downpipe. Definitely superior to using the engine injectors.

Cummins also uses the engine injectors with no valve issues

 

[Jomax]

I didn't realize that it was in the LML downpipe. Definitely superior to using the engine injectors.

Cummins also uses the engine injectors with no valve issues

We've all done it wrong.... we need to go buy chevys. Lol

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