4r100 DIY rebuild

[ht99vpi]

I recently had some overheating issues with my transmission while towing. It had been rebuilt approx. 80k miles ago and I was told the cooler in the radiator was too clogged to be cleaned. So I was told a parts store cooler installed on the front of the evaporator would work fine. :fustrate: So much for believing him. Now I have a burned up TC. I had planned to simply replace the TC and hope all was good but decided to tear it apart and inspect the inner-workings.
Good thing because the center support ball bearing was trashed. Any one have any thought on what might have caused this?

[/url]4r100 by ptownhokie, on Flickr[/IMG]
After removing everything I noted some heat marks or spots on I believe the interm clutch.

[/url]4r100 by ptownhokie, on Flickr[/IMG]
Anyone have any thoughts as to a possible cause on this one, the steel is also heat spotted.

[/url]4r100 by ptownhokie, on Flickr[/IMG]
Any ideas on if this heat ring is just from the weld or something of greater concern?

[/url]4r100 by ptownhokie, on Flickr[/IMG]
Are the thrust washers supposed to look modified? Or is this possibly part of the cause of heat.

[/url]4r100 by ptownhokie, on Flickr[/IMG]
I found scoring on the pump and gears. I am planning on just replacing the pump half all together. Could this have been caused by the bearings when they broke up? or was this possibly from the rebuild?

[/url]4r100 by ptownhokie, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]4r100 by ptownhokie, on Flickr[/IMG]
Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. On a side note I would like to increase the drive clutches so any suggestions on the number or brand, pluses or minuses would be great.

 

[ht99vpi]

I am guessing that no one has any ideas on the causes of the above damage since no one has piped in. I have ordered a rebuild kit and a new high performance pump. I hope to be started on the rebuild by the beginning of next week.

As an additional question I was looking through the ATSG manual and it shows a second ball bearing located in the coast clutch. See below. My coast clutch appears to have marks were one at one time may have existed but was not present when I dissembled. I spoke with a transmission parts store and they did not show any such ball bearing existing. I can purchase this and install it or not. Does any one have any recommendations?

[/url]IMG_2027 by ptownhokie, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[ht99vpi]

I believe I found this answer, I was told this bearing is only found on the PTO units. The manual didn't make that clear.


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[ht99vpi]

Still looking for some advice or input

I am just guessing that the scoring on the pump gears and the housing are from material from the TC or center support ball bearings.

Right now I have ordered a full rebuild kit including all the bearings, power paks for the Drive gears, a Thrust washer kit to replace all the scored washers and a transgo tugger kit. I already have a triple disc TC from Racerx and have a new high performance pump from MTS. Any recommendations for any thing else so I do not run into any issues?

 

[Northwoods2002]

The burning of the clutches and the destruction of the bearing would definitely correlate to the plugged cooler. The transmission overheated and things started breaking down. The heat ring on the sprag is from its manufacturing process. That transmission needs a complete rebuilt including thrust washers, bearings, bushings and sprags. You can remove the extra thick apply plate in the forward clutch to add an additional friction and steel for more hood ing power. Any other clutch modifications will require either machining of parts or performance clutch packs (red alto for example).

*Edit* I must have missed your last post, sorry for redundant post above. A machined center support and extra snap ring will help in the stability of the transmissio . I would also replace plugged cooler with a 6.0 cooler, your regret it if you don't. I would also replace the lines to/from the transmission as they are very long and hold a lot of material you don't want to go back in your transmission.

 

[ht99vpi]

Thanks for your response. The info is appreciated.


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[ht99vpi]

I have I think successfully rebuilt the transmission. However now that it is back in the truck I have no forward or reward movement. I have no flow out of the cooler lines at all. So my question is what are the other possible causes of no flow or movement? The pump is new high performance pump. Is it possible a valve is stuck in the valve body? I hate to think the pump is bad.


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[Northwoods2002]

Check for stuck valves in v.b. and accumulator body. Also check rear three bolts o. The support plate, if they aren't torqued right you will lose all pressure in reverse. Did you replace or check for proper function of the bypass valve on the line? That may be stuck open? Or you may not have fully engaged the t.c. into the pump, in which case, you may have damaged the pump.

 

[ht99vpi]

I am 95 percent sure the TC was fully engaged. It clicked twice and sat slightly inside the housing. If it came unseated would it make any unusual sounds. When I started it it sounded normal no scraping or other noise. Tomorrow I plan to check the valve bodies. As for the bypass valve I cleaned it and believe it is working correctly. I'll post what I find. Thanks


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[79jasper]

It can happen so fast you won't know anything happened.

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[Mark Kovalsky]

I have I think successfully rebuilt the transmission. However now that it is back in the truck I have no forward or reward movement. I have no flow out of the cooler lines at all. So my question is what are the other possible causes of no flow or movement? The pump is new high performance pump. Is it possible a valve is stuck in the valve body? I hate to think the pump is bad.

There are three possibilities.
1. You don't have enough fluid in the trans.
2. The filter isn't seated properly and it's sucking air instead of ATF
3. The converter wasn't seated properly (it goes more than two steps) and the converter and pump are trashed.

If it isn't #1 or #2, it's #3. There are no valves that can cause zero flow. They could cause low pressure, but not zero pressure.

 

[ht99vpi]

Thanks for your input. I got it working. I also feel a bit stupid but lesson learned. Not enough fluid. I don't have the lines running through the radiator so I subtracted for that and I have a cheap cooler on front that can't hold much more than 3 qt of fluid. I went to drain the pan and only go about 2 qts. So I decided to put more fluid in before anything else. So again thanks everyone that responded.


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[BS Hauler]

You will always remember the mistakes that you make. It is what is called experience.

 

[ht99vpi]

BS Hauler that is the truth. Even if it hurts. Fortunately it's only my pride. But I believe I now have an electrical issue i need to chase down. I just got an AE to pull codes and log some live data. Prelim looks like it's electrical or maybe ground related. I'm having issues with it shifting into 3rd intermittently. My shifts are also mushy now. I'll throw some data up here tomorrow to see if any one has any ideas. But just as a start when should solenoid 3 be activated and should 1 and 2 both be on at the same time?


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[Northwoods2002]

Always check bolt torque on the v.b. one bolt not torqued right will cause leaks. Did you replace your solenoid pack when you built it?

 

[ht99vpi]

I made sure to torque it to spec. I was not having any problems with it shifting before the rebuild so I did not replace the solenoid pack. But I'm getting several codes related to possible electrical problems. Before I spend the money on a solenoid pack I want to be more sure that's the problem


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[Northwoods2002]

Pull the connector off the pack, is there any fluid in the solenoid side?

 

[Mark Kovalsky]

But just as a start when should solenoid 3 be activated and should 1 and 2 both be on at the same time?

Park/Reverse/Nuetral/OD 1st gear:
SS1 - on all others off
OD 2nd gear:
SS1 on, SS2 on, SS3 off
OD 3rd gear:
SS1 off, SS2 on, SS3 off
OD 4th gear:
All solenoids off
WITH OD OFF:
1st gear:
SS1 on, SS2 off, SS3 on
2nd gear:
All solenoids on
3rd gear:
SS1 off, SS2 on, SS3 on

 

[ht99vpi]

Thanks Mark I was thinking it might be the solenoid for sure. To add to my previous post I have already checked the valves and they all moved freely. except the line pressure valve I filed down the rough spot till it didn't catch anymore but am going to replace it soon. Fluid still looks and smells good.


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[ht99vpi]

Park/Reverse/Nuetral/OD 1st gear:
WITH OD OFF:
1st gear:
SS1 on, SS2 off, SS3 on
2nd gear:
All solenoids on
3rd gear:
SS1 off, SS2 on, SS3 on

Okay so I took it out to do some data logging and found that SS3 is not coming on at all. I checked all my connectors and no moisture was found in the solenoid connector. However I did find the shift lever connector did have some corrosion on the contacts in the wire side. Would this cause that to happen? Also it feels and appears based on logging that the TC is not consistently locking. How can I tell when the PCM is calling for TC lock up? When should it be calling for TC lock up?