63.5mm turbo concerns

[powerlifter405]

My factory turbo has an oil leak and at 290k I figure that might be normal. I was originally looking at a MTW stage 1 but I'm reading his CS is hit or miss. A local PSA member was a sales rep but quit from what I've read ( on the org) due to some conflicts of ethics. Nothing was spelled out but I don't really want to be a guinea pig for someone who may or may not be re-working their business model. However the threads on the stage 1 and stage 2 indicated the users liking the turbos, but I've decided to go another route due to some CS issues.

I continued shopping around KC and Barder were mentioned and it's down to one of these two most likely.

KC "stage 1.5" offers the 1.5= 63.5mm compressor/13 blade exhaust wheel w/ the .72 cover.

Barder "stage 1"= 63.5mm/13 blade exhaust wheel w/ the .58 cover.

That being said, has anyone run these on a stock truck? I will eventually get tuning but this is my wife's DD and HP isn't a concern. Just mileage and smooth running. The injectors will stay stock.

I need it to run top notch in two primary conditions:
1- stop light to stop light where the top speed is only 30-35, basically instant boost w/ minimal throttle input.
2- Hwy @ 75 mph.

I won't tow but mayyyyybeee once per year but either should accomplish that. I want the best options for mileage and those respective rpm areas.

Anyone been in this boat already?? I find a sh$t ton of posts w/ the larger turbos or someone running larger injectors but nothing w/ stock injectors on the 63.5mm turbos.

 

[05wh250]

It would be about the same as running a powermax turbo just without the 10 blade exhaust wheel.

The 13 blades are supposed to promote a little better spool up, and also won't have the loud turbo whistle.

Unsure if those come with billet wheels or not, but I ran a powermax with stock injectors and it ran perfectly fine.

You can't go wrong with either company, and someone else will have to explain the difference in a/r values.

 

[powerlifter405]

Ok, yeah I don't want the noise. If the 6.0 wasn't so quite I could have talked the wife into keeping the 7.3 but she hated the noise.

KC uses a billet compressor, not sure about Barder. I find nothing about stock sticks and these turbos and really little about them all together.

 

[mint-6oh]

Call or pm James or Charlie. Both will go above and beyond to answer your questions and help you decide. I believe both turbos have billet wheels.

 

[triple6diesel]

watchin this one i want to see where this goes, im in for results

 

[powerlifter405]

Both have given some info in PM, James being very quick to respond to PM's.

My friend had the best DD luck w/ the a 63.5mm w/ the .72 cover, ave 19-21mpg unloaded, calc by hand w/ only a GH tune. From his experience that might be the route I'll go but I was hoping to gather some more info from PSA members who maybe have already been where I want to go.

H#ll if I could find a way I'd get both, run them for a few weeks and use the one that worked best for my situation.

 

[MT KingRanch]

I just had a KC 1.5 installed last week, haven't tried it on stock tune, drove it with a Quick Tricks 50 hp Tow tune, not really impressive but was fine. Tried the canned SCT X4 65HP Tow, that ran very well, have been driving it since install with the TSD Super Panty Dropper.
What a BLAST!!!:tree::rockon::thumbsup:

 

[AirFishAutomotive]

I believe a thread popped up on this awhile ago and I dont think there is going to be a ton of differences in them at the more budget style options because they can only do so much and keep the cost in the lower 1k mark.

 

[Mdub707]

Either turbo will be just fine on stock sticks. There are members running the Stage 2's on stock sticks without issues.

 

[powerlifter405]

I found this from the Garrett website concerning the compressor A/R:
Compressor A/R - Compressor performance is comparatively insensitive to changes in A/R. Larger A/R housings are sometimes used to optimize performance of low boost applications, and smaller A/R are used for high boost applications. However, as this influence of A/R on compressor performance is minor, there are not A/R options available for compressor housings.

I just had a KC 1.5 installed last week, haven't tried it on stock tune, drove it with a Quick Tricks 50 hp Tow tune, not really impressive but was fine. Tried the canned SCT X4 65HP Tow, that ran very well, have been driving it since install with the TSD Super Panty Dropper.
What a BLAST!!!:tree::rockon::thumbsup:

If you happen to drive it in stock tune do me a favor and post your observations. I'll eventually tune but I probably won't do studs until this spring so I'll run it on stock for now.

Do you have any other QT tunes? I was under the impression vivian wrote awesome tunes. IIRC TSD began doing their own tuning after vivian briefly stopped.

I believe a thread popped up on this awhile ago and I dont think there is going to be a ton of differences in them at the more budget style options because they can only do so much and keep the cost in the lower 1k mark.

I found a bunch of "stage 2" 64.mm threads but nothing on the 63.5mm units. Money isn't a hurdle, I'm just tightwad preferring it in my bank for Christmas, unexpected accidents, blown up appliances etc... But agreed, there are only so many differences I'm just trying to figure what might be best for my application.

Either turbo will be just fine on stock sticks. There are members running the Stage 2's on stock sticks without issues.

Both James and Charlie suggested their 63.5mm and one website says "Custom Tuning Required" and in a PM Charlie stated "The stage 2 is a little bigger bump over stock. It will spool just slightly slower than stock in some situations. Tuning can usually remedy any spooling issues and most never complain". I'd like to avoid having to use new tuning to get it to run correctly.
I'd venture w/ a even a tow tune and w/ stock sticks they do run fine but I'd like to not make tuning a necessity unless that's the only remedy.

 

[Twan]

What is your elavtion?

I ran the powermax on a stock exhaust, tune and injectors for a while at 5000' it was on but had lots of lag. If your close to sea level it wouldn't be near as bad.

It was just a bit worse than the 03's. Pulling sucked so I bought sct.

That all being said, if I was not going to upgrade injectors I wouldn't buy a larger turbo, but I'm at 5000-10000' daily. Lol

 

[powerlifter405]

What is your elavtion?

I ran the powermax on a stock exhaust, tune and injectors for a while at 5000' it was on but had lots of lag. If your close to sea level it wouldn't be near as bad.

It was just a bit worse than the 03's. Pulling sucked so I bought sct.

That all being said, if I was not going to upgrade injectors I wouldn't buy a larger turbo, but I'm at 5000-10000' daily. Lol

Approx 2000. From everything I've read the powermax can be laggy and hot for lower rpm driving and towing.

If my seals weren't leaking I'd leave it stock BUT its leaking oil so it has to be done. That being the case, and the money spent will be about equal, if upgrading is just the same $$ wise I should take advantage of getting more air. More air never hurt a diesel.

The factory turbo can't fully clean up hot tunes and even though my wife drives reasonably, I'm an idiot so I don't want high egts. IMHO too many guys add fuel via injectors or tunes but don't add air which I think is a bad idea.

 

[Twan]

That's true, it was a little hot until I had a good street tune for it.

When I upgraded again I'll be going with KC turbo.

 

[Mixedbreed]

2000 feet isn't bad. I ran mine at 2200 and loved it. At 7400-11000, not so much.

 

[powerlifter405]

That's true, it was a little hot until I had a good street tune for it.

When I upgraded again I'll be going with KC turbo.

Thinking of tunes which do you like best?

2000 feet isn't bad. I ran mine at 2200 and loved it. At 7400-11000, not so much.

stock or with the 190s?

 

[Twan]

I really like my DP tune, we got it dialed in perfect. Eric's street tune was nice for a DD with stock injectors. Just took a while to get it dialed in so my egts wouldn't blow past 1400.

The biggest things I've learned for egt and spool time has been ported manifold and a 5" exhaust helped me the most. I have the stock manifold on right now. Waiting on one from Steve.

 

[Mdub707]

If you happen to drive it in stock tune do me a favor and post your observations. I'll eventually tune but I probably won't do studs until this spring so I'll run it on stock for now.

Do you have any other QT tunes? I was under the impression vivian wrote awesome tunes. IIRC TSD began doing their own tuning after vivian briefly stopped.

Both James and Charlie suggested their 63.5mm and one website says "Custom Tuning Required" and in a PM Charlie stated "The stage 2 is a little bigger bump over stock. It will spool just slightly slower than stock in some situations. Tuning can usually remedy any spooling issues and most never complain". I'd like to avoid having to use new tuning to get it to run correctly.
I'd venture w/ a even a tow tune and w/ stock sticks they do run fine but I'd like to not make tuning a necessity unless that's the only remedy.

Approx 2000. From everything I've read the powermax can be laggy and hot for lower rpm driving and towing.

If my seals weren't leaking I'd leave it stock BUT its leaking oil so it has to be done. That being the case, and the money spent will be about equal, if upgrading is just the same $$ wise I should take advantage of getting more air. More air never hurt a diesel.

The factory turbo can't fully clean up hot tunes and even though my wife drives reasonably, I'm an idiot so I don't want high egts. IMHO too many guys add fuel via injectors or tunes but don't add air which I think is a bad idea.

Thinking of tunes which do you like best?

I'm kind of confused here. Are you totally against tuning at this point? If you are, I'd recommend just getting another stock turbo honestly. Sure you can probably slap one of these stage 1.5's on and run on stock tuning, but it would bug me not having a tune written for that specific turbo honestly. You don't need to put a really hot tune on, they can keep the power levels low and just make the turbo work correctly and make some changes to help the transmission out as well.

That's just my opinion. I myself went with more air on stock sticks and am very happy I went this way. Runs very clean.

 

[powerlifter405]

Tuning will just happen later on down the line. I just don't want it to be a necessity as tunes will happen in spring. The wife likes a tuned truck responsiveness as do I.

 

[Mdub707]

As many issues as guys seemed to go through with the powermax turbos I'd be leery of putting one of those VGT's on without tuning, personally. Tough call. Why not just find a cheap used stock charger for $300-$400 to get you by until spring and then do the tuning and upgraded charger all at once? You could even resell the used turbo again.

 

[KCTurbos]

Lots of good info here... I will chime in just a little bit.


The stage 1 (and some stage 1.5s) come with a 13 bladed turbine. They are much more street friendly and usually don't need any "major" custom tuning. Most stock turbo tunes work just fine for the stage 1.5. We always recommend getting custom tuning but with a 13 blade turbine you should run fine on stock turbo tuning.


The stage 2 turbo is a great option and many people run it with no problems... BUT... it does have the 10 blade turbine wheel which can get a little laggy in some situations (just like the pmax). I would not say that custom tuning is "required"... but it is HIGHLY RECOMMEND. I have driven stage 3 68mm turbos on stock tuning with no issues and have had many customers do the same, but it is not something I would recommend.



The stage 1 turbos will have minimal turbo lag, no whistle, spool close to stock, and don't "require" custom turbo tunes (but it is still recommended). The stage 1 turbos will not win any HP races. They start to run out of air up top after around 3000rpms where you really need the power for racing/sled/dyno applications. This turbo is designed for near stock drive ability with a little extra kick.


The stage 2 turbo will have similar lag to a pmax which can usually be remedied with a custom tune. Some people never have any issues with lag on a pmax/stage 2 turbo... others hate it. (elevation, big tire, and lift make lag worse) The stage 2 turbos will whistle really loud and make a lot more power on the top end.



On stock injectors the stage 2 will not make much more power over a stage 1.5 because there is just not enough fuel... but with larger injectors the stage 2 will walk all over the stage 1.5 in the higher rpms




Off the line with custom tuning most do not notice any lag with a stage 2 turbo... but add bigger tires, elevation, and any little leak/issue with the truck and it becomes more obvious. Most people really start to notice turbo lag when locked in OD going about 1500-1800 rpms. That is when the smaller turbo will really shine.




Hope that helps. Let me know if anyone has any more specific questions.