Best Studs/Head Gaskets?

[Mdub707]

I know what you mean about the 800hp truck... my point was how many guys pushing 600+ hp have checked to see if they have a slight leak. The guys I know that went and checked were very disappointed.

I'm sure you're right. There are probably a bunch of guys who are none the wiser. Ignorance is bliss in this case LOL

Here is another thought/theory that I have been going over recently.


PSI tensile strength is the maximum amount of force the stud can take
Clamping force is exhibited by torquing the stud down.
The closer you get to reaching the maximum tensile strength the more clamping force


I know this must sound simple to some guys but it makes me wonder exactly where the stud reaches the maximum tensile strength and yields. 215, 240, 260 etc... you want to get as close as possible to the yielding point without passing it. ARP would never tell you the exact figure. They must guestimate a little low. There are so many different variables that could come into affect that needs to have a little fudge room. Probably the most important being the torque wrench being calibrated correctly and also being used correctly.


This is why some shops do not use a torque wrench for the last few turns. They just use a certain number of turns... which essentially is just stretching the stud to a certain point everytime. I could actually see this method being more acurate than a tq wrench in reaching the same clamping force everytime... but not sure how you achieve a baseline.

I'm sure ARP has some sort of safety margin built in. I know for the product line I work in we use a 0.4 MOS for commercial applications and 1.0 MOS for space/flight/loss of life.

The torque wrench in itself is just not the most accurate way. This is exactly why my company uses hydraulic tensioners. We just calculate the stretch needed to get a certain clamping force and then hydraulically stretch the stud to where we want it. No need to worry about torque scatter etc. Just hit a button and go.

In theory you could easily calculate the stretch needed and how many turns needed to do that using the TPI of the stud. It would be interesting to try that out. Figure out the math, torque a set of studs down using the angle needed and calculate the height. If you had a good solid foundation to rest a gauge you could measure the difference in height of the stud I'm sure.


I would really like to see length measurements of the studs before and after a crazy high torque, or after head gaskets were blown on one of these.


Oh how I wish these were 6 bolts per cylinder design.... :bowfast:

 

[mcdaniel1991]

I think more people should monitor coolant psi. We watch fuel psi, volts, egts but only check cooling pressure when we suspect hg leaking. I now monitor cooling psi.

I'm not pushing coolant out of my bottel during normal driving but you can definitely tell the TTY bolts have stretched

Vid wont show up but here is the link.
http://youtu.be/kadEzS-6KPI




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[mcdaniel1991]

Vid wont show up but here is the link.

Got the link to work



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kadEzS-6KPI&feature=youtu.be

 

[KCTurbos]

I think more people should monitor coolant psi. We watch fuel psi, volts, egts but only check cooling pressure when we suspect hg leaking. I now monitor cooling psi.



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AMEN!!!

 

[Triumph1188]

6 per cylinder would be much better...

I have heard issues with oringed heads on dd trucks because of the many heat cycles it goes through. The orings start to fatigue over time. The consensus I got was that fire rings and orings are most effective in race/pulling trucks.

If the head flexes slightly under higher cylinder pressures, then there is really no way to keep it reliable under higher power levels. Unless you don't monitor coolant pressure haha. Ignorance might be bliss in that case.

I already have a set or standard ARPs. I might sell them and eat the difference in cost for what I can sell them for and go with extreme studs or try and find an h11 stud before those disappear. I am not sure I see that making a huge difference if the heads physically flex because there isn't a uniform enough clamping force from the bolt pattern...

 

[bigrpowr]

here's the other things people arent remembering, the h-13 studs are re-useable. personally i would feel ok re-using them twice. but they are CERTAINLY good for one more use, where i would not trust an arp because they are already close to their stretch to yield point. with my h-11's on my 7.3 i reused them twice with no issue. 3rd time they let go, but i believe it was backpressure not the studs. i think in the grand scheme, for $150 more, it's a no brainer on jobs that cost and mean so much more like downtime and repair.

 

[KCTurbos]

here's the other things people arent remembering, the h-13 studs are re-useable. personally i would feel ok re-using them twice. but they are CERTAINLY good for one more use, where i would not trust an arp because they are already close to their stretch to yield point. with my h-11's on my 7.3 i reused them twice with no issue. 3rd time they let go, but i believe it was backpressure not the studs. i think in the grand scheme, for $150 more, it's a no brainer on jobs that cost and mean so much more like downtime and repair.

^^^ agreed... $150 is well worth the extra insurance

 

[Mdub707]

here's the other things people arent remembering, the h-13 studs are re-useable. personally i would feel ok re-using them twice. but they are CERTAINLY good for one more use, where i would not trust an arp because they are already close to their stretch to yield point. with my h-11's on my 7.3 i reused them twice with no issue. 3rd time they let go, but i believe it was backpressure not the studs. i think in the grand scheme, for $150 more, it's a no brainer on jobs that cost and mean so much more like downtime and repair.

Either the stud is yielded or it's not... if it's not yielded I see no issue in re-using them. I went ahead and contacted ARP for dimensions of the studs and the tolerances and actually measured my studs after they had been used once (standard ARP's) and they all fell within that tolerance which told me they had not been physically damaged. They've been holding great on this last head gasket job (dealer did first job and they blew almost immediately, likely heads that weren't flat caused that though). I mean, I can see the concern and in the scheme of things the money isn't worth doing the job again, but as long as someone was able to verify the material was still good... what's the harm?

 

[Josh@DirtyDiesels]

6 per cylinder would be much better...

I have heard issues with oringed heads on dd trucks because of the many heat cycles it goes through. The orings start to fatigue over time. The consensus I got was that fire rings and orings are most effective in race/pulling trucks.

If the head flexes slightly under higher cylinder pressures, then there is really no way to keep it reliable under higher power levels. Unless you don't monitor coolant pressure haha. Ignorance might be bliss in that case.

I already have a set or standard ARPs. I might sell them and eat the difference in cost for what I can sell them for and go with extreme studs or try and find an h11 stud before those disappear. I am not sure I see that making a huge difference if the heads physically flex because there isn't a uniform enough clamping force from the bolt pattern...

Personally I have had no issues with my o- rings. It has been about 13 months with them and 10 months north of 600+ hp. Extra insurance IMO

here's the other things people arent remembering, the h-13 studs are re-useable. personally i would feel ok re-using them twice. but they are CERTAINLY good for one more use, where i would not trust an arp because they are already close to their stretch to yield point. with my h-11's on my 7.3 i reused them twice with no issue. 3rd time they let go, but i believe it was backpressure not the studs. i think in the grand scheme, for $150 more, it's a no brainer on jobs that cost and mean so much more like downtime and repair.

For the price that makes it a no brainer. Less questioning the stud and having to worry. If I keep my truck long enough to have to pull the heads off again for any reason or more upgrades I will definitely be getting a set of these.

 

[swinky]

My truck puked today :/

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[william_ace]

Uh oh. Normal driving or hard runs?

 

[swinky]

Hard runs. It was low on coolant though I topped it off and seems okay now.

 

[KCTurbos]

Hard runs. It was low on coolant though I topped it off and seems okay now.

uh-oh...

You might have a small leaking gasket. Easy to check with a pressure gauge.


Trucks don't usually puke because they are low on coolant. They are usually low on coolant because they puked.

 

[swinky]

Mine has done it before. The radiator is leaking a little. I sure hope it's not another blown gasket. I'll be selling it for a cummings if it is.

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[Triumph1188]

Mine has done it before. The radiator is leaking a little. I sure hope it's not another blown gasket. I'll be selling it for a cummings if it is.

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You would only have one head and one gasket to worry about then!

 

[loboost]

Mine has done it before. The radiator is leaking a little. I sure hope it's not another blown gasket. I'll be selling it for a cummings if it is.

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I agree lol

You would only have one head and one gasket to worry about then!

That's the beauty of it lol

sent while driving recklessly