Best traction bars for a 450
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smokinstroker
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What do the OUO bars do that cause a problem?
Layson
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To me you are the drama. All I talked about was One Up Offroad bars and the main reason why I don't like the Newton bars.
You know that makes total sense to me. LOL
Yes I have seen them in person. There are other things I don't like about them as well, but just isn't worth mentioning. I can not get past the connection at the axle and let me tell you in person it stands out a lot more than the pictures.
You are making this into something that it was not.
SAK
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There is no "bait" here it is a legit question, most people don't understand how geometry plays a HUGE roll in how bars need to be setup.
Charles explained it very well here:
So the simple answer you could have given was because they were not setup right.
NotStock
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To the OP, if you have any questions on our product, just let me know. Im happy to answer any questions you might have about our product comparisons or such. Shoot me a pm or call anytime
bpb424
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^
Professionalism
Professionalism
TripleE44
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WHERE did I say OUO cause a problem? Reading comprehension fail. My buddy bought them for his '08 F350 'cause I recommended them...and installed them...and know first hand about the quality that go into them. I simply don't want my truck to be a clone of his...I didn't think that was too hard to understand but obviously it is...
Layson
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99% of the population out there won't even figure it out. Trust me I went from traction blocks/bars to a fully linked up rear with coil-overs and most people can't even tell the difference. LOL
They do make bars without the gussets. I actually kind of like those better now. They are real clean.
ANOTHER reading comprehension failure...it's turning into an epidemic.
The fanbois/shoprats/nut swingers here and elsewhere have done more to damage OUO's (and Marty's) sales and reputation than they probably could on their own. If you were my customers I'd tell you to shut your cakehole; you're not helping. It's unquestionable that both OUO and PMF sell outstanding product, and now there's buzzing about Newton/Fat Boys and PMF's new bars, so let the customers decide what works for them and be happy with what you have.
It seems that almost every Ford Powerstroke Traction Bar thread degrades into the same nonsense, so I'm not the least bit surprised this one is too. Trevor/PMF/No Limit always takes the high road, which is nice to see and always refreshing, and says a lot about how their business is run. The "OUO Crew" needs to tone it down; you're NOT helping your "cause". Do a search of "traction bars" here and on the other Powerstroke related forums and you could easily think that some of the comments are coming from actual employees of OUO or TTP (and not customers) and if you don't think the combative, obnoxious and defensive nature of some those arguments isn't driving sales elsewhere, you're delusional.
I always have my big boy pants on, so if I decide to go with the Newton/Fat Boys or Trevor's/PMF new bars and they don't get the job done, y'all will be the first to know, and get to say "I told you so", which is all you're trying to do now, just "proactively"...
Layson
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Ronin, I think you have some serious issues you need help with. I don't work for One Up Offroad. I am just a customer that is providing a feedback for a product I have purchased. I don't really know what I said on here that is so "combative, obnoxious and defensive?" What is wrong with not liking Newton bars? Obviously it really set you off for some reason. It is just my opinion and you can take it however you want.
What did Sak say that was so "combative, obnoxious and defensive?" He asked you a simple question and then provided a response that explained WHY he doesn't like those bars either. Nothing at all negative that I saw there.
You are the one making this thread into something more than just about traction bars.
Believe me, I LOVE the look of your truck(s) and some of the others out there that are lifted and can appreciate having spent a tremendous amount of money and effort to get them there.
We're all passionate about our trucks and when a vendor/product is tied into it, that goes likewise. It's very similar to the "tuning wars" that you see going on all the time. There's more than one way to skin a cat (lift/tune a truck, you get the picture) but if you're a Brand "A" guy and someone goes with Brand "B"; that doesn't automatically make them less informed, downright stupid, or somewhere in between.
That's one of the reasons why I've "shared the love" working on my '10 and my buddy's '08. He's Spartanized, I was IDP and now I'm a "Gearhead". He's level/lifted (2.5 ICON kit from TTP/Marty), I'm going level/lowered with 4800# springs and the block and helper spring delete. He has a 5-inch single exhaust, I have Cool Duals. His truck is black from cryin' out loud and mine is...well, right now that's not important, but you get the picture.
I've made recommendations to him to help him spend his money. When it came to traction bars he asked me, if I were him, what would I run. I said OUO and that's what he got. Now, in keeping in line with what I've been doing to my truck as opposed to his all along, I'm looking at other than OUO, and that's no disrespect to them, you, TTP/Marty, SAK or anyone that enjoys their product, but likewise that doesn't give anyone the right to start another free-for-all on ANY other vendor selling competing products either, or characterizing me as being less than informed for making said decision.
There are some products in both our trucks that are the same though (downpipe and cold side CAC pipe for example), and that's likewise gonna happen when I catch up with some of his mods (AirDog for example), it's just in this case (traction bars) I didn't wanna play copycat...
I apologize if I came off as being disrespectful, as a rule I NEVER post/text/email/etc. anything anytime anywhere that I wouldn't say straight to someone's face...
Again with the reading comprehension; you're interpreting my comments as singling you out specifically, which I've never done here or elsewhere. I'm speaking in generalities which has now caused you to become defensive...
You made this thread while I was posting my latest one; and I hope this straightens it out...
I'm not just talking about this forum, I'm talking everywhere, and I typically lurk more than post, just spending more time and money lately and getting more involved, but I've read a whole bunch of stuff and was hoping to keep it civil. It didn't end up that way, but hopefully the mess is cleaned up now...or is at least back on track and being civil.
Ronin OUT!
SAK
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I think this is what you would call, calling the kettle black.
Unless you are Dave’s (OUO) or Marty’s (TT) accountant, how do you know for a FACT that it has hurt sales. I would shut you pie hole about it.
No one has even brought up an comparison of who’s bars are better than who’s. YOU are bring it up
YOU are the one that is dragging it into nonsense, no one else is.
Our “cause” speaks for itself. If I remember correctly the fast 6.4 has OUO Adjustible Link Arms and Traction Bars. Along with other numerous high HP trucks on the road.
This has already been cleared up. Do a little “search” and you would of found this:
Sounds like they are fitting you a little tight.
I didn’t even say I didn’t like any other bars, it was just a simple question in general.
Who is starting the “free for all”? This all started with your comment about me asking a question and you stating that I was going to turn this into a OUO flag waving event, all you have done is wave the flag for the opposition because you don’t want to have the same bars as your buddy.
SAK, I've said my peace and previously mentioned that I wouldn't say anything "virtually" that I wouldn't say to someone's face. Evidently that's a character trait that you do not possess.
You've reacted in the completely typical manner in which you always seem to when it comes to all matters OUO/TTP/traction bars/suspension. The "Traction Bar Troll" is a good nickname fer ya come to think of it.
I'd care to bet that you don't own your own business. If I'm wrong, my apologies in advance, but owning a business and having customers like yourself does far more harm than good. You walk a very fine line in your posts and come off to the likely casual observer as an employee when in fact, you're not. Your innumerable pissing contests with people just trying to get information, asking questions or bringing up a competing product as an alternative and the manner in which you address them no doubt brings both comfort and money to OUO's competitors. If you worked for me I would have fired your arse a long time ago. "Oh sh!t$" wipe out "atta boys" in no time in this age of information technology, and your "my dad can kick your dad's butt" mentality is bad for business, period.
People come to the internet and forums like this to collect, share and compare information, and your rabid and immature responses (case in point) when countered with simple and professional responses like "if you have any questions, PM or call me" make it a no-brainer for someone objectively (that's compared to subjectively) collecting intel for a potential purchase.
I'm not dragging Trevor/PMF, OUO/TTP/Marty or Jason/Newton/Fat Boys into yet another of your foaming at the mouth internet arguments. My big boy pants fit just fine, maybe you'll find yours someday.
And as far as using OUO/TTP/Marty to put together my buddy's kit for his truck, it's a good thing for them that I didn't mistake you for being an employee (of any of them) as other people likely have, otherwise someone else's phone would have been ringing.
You are simply completely incapable of having a rational and objective conversation with the subject matter at hand. There's a reason why the nature of your relationship had to be cleared up and set straight, what's funny is that you fail to see it from a business perspective. It wasn't to declare a friendship with a customer, it was damage control, something along the lines of "holy crap, people are gonna think this lunatic works for us!"
And speaking of which, how about a little truth in advertising? You're just a "average Joe" here, but elsewhere (on other forum) you're a sponsor/technical consultant/suspension expert. So which is it, are you giving advise with a profit motive (even though you're a "friend" of the company and not paid...) or you're just trying to help with your vast knowledge of all things truck suspension and guide us ignorant types in the right direction? You're either disingenuous or cheap...or a combination of the two.
I'm done with you and this thread...
You've reacted in the completely typical manner in which you always seem to when it comes to all matters OUO/TTP/traction bars/suspension. The "Traction Bar Troll" is a good nickname fer ya come to think of it.
I'd care to bet that you don't own your own business. If I'm wrong, my apologies in advance, but owning a business and having customers like yourself does far more harm than good. You walk a very fine line in your posts and come off to the likely casual observer as an employee when in fact, you're not. Your innumerable pissing contests with people just trying to get information, asking questions or bringing up a competing product as an alternative and the manner in which you address them no doubt brings both comfort and money to OUO's competitors. If you worked for me I would have fired your arse a long time ago. "Oh sh!t$" wipe out "atta boys" in no time in this age of information technology, and your "my dad can kick your dad's butt" mentality is bad for business, period.
People come to the internet and forums like this to collect, share and compare information, and your rabid and immature responses (case in point) when countered with simple and professional responses like "if you have any questions, PM or call me" make it a no-brainer for someone objectively (that's compared to subjectively) collecting intel for a potential purchase.
I'm not dragging Trevor/PMF, OUO/TTP/Marty or Jason/Newton/Fat Boys into yet another of your foaming at the mouth internet arguments. My big boy pants fit just fine, maybe you'll find yours someday.
And as far as using OUO/TTP/Marty to put together my buddy's kit for his truck, it's a good thing for them that I didn't mistake you for being an employee (of any of them) as other people likely have, otherwise someone else's phone would have been ringing.
You are simply completely incapable of having a rational and objective conversation with the subject matter at hand. There's a reason why the nature of your relationship had to be cleared up and set straight, what's funny is that you fail to see it from a business perspective. It wasn't to declare a friendship with a customer, it was damage control, something along the lines of "holy crap, people are gonna think this lunatic works for us!"
And speaking of which, how about a little truth in advertising? You're just a "average Joe" here, but elsewhere (on other forum
I'm done with you and this thread...
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Can you ellaborate on the connection at the axle? If I my vision is correct, they connect to the axle in nearly identical ways as the OUO.
We will go ahead and say the block and bracket at the axle are Identical because in all reality they are as close as can be. The only difference I see is that Newton uses HEIM style ends on the bars because instead of offsetting the frame bracket, he decided to mount it under the frame, so the bars do not run straight forwards and backwards, but rather go inwards just a bit, a very small bit that it isnt going to make a difference, but required HEIM style joints and not bushings that couldnt articulate side to side some. The bars are huge and are very heavy.
Ill go ahead and state that I am running Newton bars. They have performed very well. I am in no way associated with Newton, and I don't believe what I buy is the best. Im sure OUO bars are better in some kind of way. Do I believe its worth the cost difference? No, I went with something that would fit my needs and would mount to the axle in a way that it would send all force up the bars to the frame rather than have two mounts more towards the front of the axle that would have a twisting force. This is just where I stand.
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Breaking Habits
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Not trying to ruffle feathers.. Honest point. When using these bars, has anyone monitored/observed the rear axle under load, or more importantly (in my opinion) coming out from under load. I really like that my OUO bars don't feel like my rear end is getting frisky when I let out of the throttle at 130 mph. That was one of my biggest points of interest when looking to replace my fabtech, and I love them.
I noticed that when I'd let off at the end of the sledpulll track, my axle would move straight forward a bit when I let out (or so it appeared, would bunny hop). Now, when I chop the throttle (neutral bump) it just raises 1/2" off my stops, not moving my axle forward/backwards, but just going through the set path it should.
For the record, yes, I am an OUO dealer, and yes, I sell a TON of these kits, i figured I'd put it out there before someone else does. Honestly, i don't care of you purchase from me or Marty, your getting top of the line quality regardless. Which is what we both strive to push.
But, I'm also a customer, and I sell what I like. I've tried a few, I've bent, broken dreaded and loved different types.
OP asked for opinion and feedback, so there's my .02 as a sled puller.
Hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings..
Jared
Layson
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Don't take any of this the wrong way, I am just giving you my honest opinion.
The only thing that is close is the fact that there is a single bolt holding the bar on. That is it! The One Up bars do not have a heim joint at the end of the bar. But that isn't what I don't like the most. It is the fact that the large tubing necks down to smaller and smaller sizes till it gets to the heim joint. It is almost like they built a set of bars and they got bent somehow and so they kept upsizing the bars till they didn't bend anymore. It just doesn't look right to me. What that does, is make that connection at the axle or the frame the weak link. If those fail you are going to know it... LOL. The stiffer the tubing is the the more stress/load it can handle/transfer. As your suspension flexes that bar is going to want to get slightly longer or shorter. Since it is pinned at each end, it cannot, so it can become a compression/tension member as the suspension cycles. This is what binds up the leaf springs.
The block and bracket are not identical. The concept of the block and how it is connected to the bar is similar. In my opinion the quality and craftsmanship is not. The block looks like a bunch of flatbar and tube steel welded together. I don't like the fact that none of the corners are chamfered or rounded. Too angular for me and I don't like that look. To me this does not compare to something that was a designed, drafted, and than laser cutted part.
The front connection at the frame is also completely different on the One Up Offroad bars. Besides the fact that there are (8) bolts holding the front mount in place there is also bushings that allow enough horizontal translation to enable your suspension to flex. Your connection does not allow any of this and is probably affecting how your rear springs flex. I would assume that you noticed a difference in the ride quality after those bars were installed.
Those heim joints are going to be a clunking too someday...
I am not trying to piss you off, just giving you my opinion of what I see when I look at the Newton bars. For you they may be just fine and do what you need, which is keeping the axle from moving. They do that, just not in the way that I think it should be done. :blitzed:
I think the ends are actually stronger than the bars themselves because it is tubing inside tubing therfor reinforcing the ends as it gets smaller until it gets to the nut the actual heim joints thread into. You are right about the blocks, they are kind of a bunch of flat bar plates (Im pretty sure 3/8") welded together. BUT, they function just as well as OUO Blocks, just dont have the "looks." So there is probably some cost knocked off the top. I know my frame mounts only have (2) 5/8" Grade 8 bolts, BUT as long as they are "Tight as hell", then there should never be any breaking because the shearing force required for them to break would never be met with the force of axle wrap. Im not taking anything offensive, I actually like argumental discussions because not everyone has the same or opinion and usually always gain information.
Layson
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:blitzed:
Either way when the ends reduce in section by that much you are reducing its strength. I don’t care if the ends are solid steel. Maybe he used some higher grade steel, I don’t know? In my opinion I would like to see the tubing sized with the joint. So maybe just using a larger joint instead of necking it down. But if they went that route the axle and frame mounts would have to get larger!
You are correct about the blocks, they do function like pretty much all the companies out there that make blocks. But as mentioned above the newton bars do not have any means for the axle to move during suspension travel. Your axle is going to want to follow the radius of the bars instead of the arc of the leaf springs. The leaf springs are going to fight it. No rocket science here, but like I said people do this all the time and it works for them. It is not what I would do with my truck.
As far as those mounting bolts to the frame. I don’t think you can really quantify that force that those bars are going to transfer to the frame mount. Especially if you hook up a trailer to your truck those bars are definitely going to suck in some load. I would bet just backing a trailer up and catching one rear wheel up a curb or rock is not going to make that bar happy….
That tubing appears that it will take more load than the typical bars you see out there (disregarding the ends of course). The connection to the frame hopefully is sized to handle that load. There is not much redundancy in the system since there are only two bolts connecting it to the frame. What happens if one of those bolts is bearing against the hole and the other one isn’t? Maybe you didn’t get your holes drilled perfect. That would only give you ONE bolt holding that on in shear. All it would take is one bolt to fail and the other one could unzip right behind it. Not saying that will ever happen but just me looking at the system. To me I don’t like that. Bolts are cheap!!
From my point of view all I see is someone doing is putting together the cheapest rendition of the traction block/bar setup they can possibly make. If you were to upsize the joints that costs more money. If you were to use some better joints than heim joints… that costs money! If you were to add a larger mount to the frame with more bolts, that costs more money. If you used laser cut parts that are chamfered, filleted, or rounded, that costs money. If you were to add some means of letting the axle translate during suspension travel on the front mount… that costs money. If you wanted to make it look cooler… that costs money.
One thing I also don’t like is claims that they make the strongest bars on the market on their ebay page. Seriously how do you say that? Are they tested against everyone else’s? I don’t know, to me these are just some of the flags that I see when I look at these.
If your priorities are different than mine and all you need is something connecting to the axle, than these bars are probably going to be fine for you.
Here are a few reasons why I saved my money and chose One Up Offroad. First of all it is packaged to survive WWIII. I don’t know about you but I don’t like having to ship things back to have them re-powdercoated. That is worth a premium for me. I also like the fact that the bars come with a very detailed instruction manual with 3D illustrations. I also like the fact that the blocks are ALL upgradeable. If I don’t like the height I can send it back, pay the shipping and then pay the difference in the block and have a different one. I also like the fact that all of the kits come with ¾” U-bolts. I also like the fact that they come with BUMPSTOPS, so many suspension companies don’t put bumpstops on their kits. They should be on there, just my opinion. I also like the fact that I can upgrade and add Air bags if I want. I also have the ability to reposition my rear axle with the adjustable top plates. So if my axle isn’t centered in the wheel well I can do that. I also like the fact that you can get bars that are adjustable in length. So they can easily be moved to a different truck, shortbed, long bed, whatever… LOL My favorite is I can call if I have any issues and someone is going to pick up the phone and help me out. You couple all this with the fact that they work and my suspension still works the way it should, it just makes a nice package…. Not to mention they look pretty good too… LOL
Just glance through here and it shows several different options… I think there is a lot more now, this looks to be a few years old.
http://www.oneupoffroad.com/images/OUO_Traction_System_Intro.pdf
I think I am done with my soapbox and honestly wrote too much stuff… LOL I hate it when people write long drawn out posts… LOL
