BlueWaffle
New member
Sorry, not taking the bait and NOT going to let you turn this into another OUO flag waving event while you trash everyone else...
Sorry, not taking the bait and NOT going to let you turn this into another OUO flag waving event while you trash everyone else...
I really don't wanna do the OUOs 'cause then I'd have the same thing my buddy does, which is kinda ghey. I was thinking either PMF's or Newton's bars would suit my purposes just fine (Cal Tracs aren't even an option for obvious reasons).
Yes, yes I have seen them. I've also seen other traction bars (not OUO or PMF mind you) twist like pretzels with little more than a single trip down the 1/4 mile.
But I haven't seen that with these, and while Newton may not be as well known as either OUO or PMF, they're not exactly the new kids on the block either.
I have first hand experience with the OUOs (installed on my buddy's '08 F350) and there's plenty of people that are tickled with Trevor/PMF's offerings (no need to [re]introduce any drama at this point either).!
I really don't wanna do the OUOs 'cause then I'd have the same thing my buddy does, which is kinda ghey.
Have You seen them is the question? Or have you seen just Pictures?
Sorry, not taking the bait and NOT going to let you turn this into another OUO flag waving event while you trash everyone else...
Sorry, not taking the bait and NOT going to let you turn this into another OUO flag waving event while you trash everyone else...
Maybe it would be best to simply list the most common ways that people butcher this subject...
1. By producing a link whose combination of length and angle make it fight the arc-path that the axle naturally takes when cycling. The VAST majority of people error here by making links way too long, which makes it impossible to give the link the necessary angle, leaving the link to follow an arc with a much longer radus than that of the leafspring hanger the axle is pivoting on.
2. By thinking ______ length works on every truck with _____ wheelbase. Wrong. The determining factor is one thing..... height. Because unless you people are cutting the hangers off the frame and ordering special long or shorter than stock springs.... then the only thing effecting the arc the axle will take is the arch of the spring... which is directly related to the resting height, aka lift amount. Doesn't make one *** whether or not the truck is a reg cab, extended cab, crew cab, longbed, shortbed, doesn't make one bit of a ***. Only thing that matters is the angle formed between the bottom of the spring where it rests on the axle perch, and the hanger. That is what determines the radius of the arc the axle will travel in. The only modifier is in the elongation of the leaves as the spring is flattened out, with lift springs encountering far, far, FAR more rearward travel relative to the horizon as they compress vs a stock spring. So if your buddy had good luck with stock springs and a block with _____ length bars, and you've got 8" deavers on the rear of your truck, get ready to make a wooden cart if you build an identical set just because both of your trucks happen to be the same cab/bed configuration.
3. End hardware. People like to try and use standard spherical rod ends (heims) for a daily driven application on 7+ thousand pound vehicles that often tack on ANOTHER 15,000 or so lbs with a trailer and then don't understand why rod ends that race teams regularly throw away and replace on a sub 3000lb vehicle with service lives in the sub 1000 mile range didn't last on your daily driver. There are two viable options when it comes to a daily driven vehicle, poly joints and rebuildable spherical joints with replaceable poly cups like the jonny joint, Ballistic joints and the like. That's it. End of story. Everything else is for the confused.
4. Materials selection. This one is a combo... DUE TO the proliference of people that like to make mile long bars that fight their own suspension to the death on every bump and hump in the road, these same people have very long, unsupported bars that are binding the sh*t out of everything and encountering multiple times the stress they should. So they fold... These same people then usually grab the biggest, DOM piece they can and succeed in locking the suspension pretty much the rest of the way out and then tell everybody else how DOM is the only way because of how they destroyed other materials before. Well..... ah, yeah. If you always hit it with a 10lb hammer before putting it in your mouth you'd need a chromoly soup spoon too, lol. You can run regular old HREW tubing in an 1-5/8 to 2" varieties with great sucess if the geometry is acceptable and the subsequent length of the bar does not kill the slenderness ratio to the point of bar instability. If the damn thing bolts on somewhere near your front bumper, then no.... a HREW 1-5/8 pipe is not going to be sufficient. In that case maybe a chromo DOM 4" tube would be sufficient to lock out your suspension without failing. However, if the link is positioned like you have some sense, then more times than not, the link is relatively short in length, and does not warrant large or expensive materials.
What do the OUO bars do that cause a problem?
^
Professionalism
WHERE did I say OUO cause a problem? Reading comprehension fail. My buddy bought them for his '08 F350 'cause I recommended them...and installed them...and know first hand about the quality that go into them. I simply don't want my truck to be a clone of his...I didn't think that was too hard to understand but obviously it is...
To me you are the drama. All I talked about was One Up Offroad bars and the main reason why I don't like the Newton bars.
You know that makes total sense to me. LOL
Yes I have seen them in person. There are other things I don't like about them as well, but just isn't worth mentioning. I can not get past the connection at the axle and let me tell you in person it stands out a lot more than the pictures.
You are making this into something that it was not.
[/I]
ANOTHER reading comprehension failure...it's turning into an epidemic.
The fanbois/shoprats/nut swingers here and elsewhere have done more to damage OUO's (and Marty's) sales and reputation than they probably could on their own. If you were my customers I'd tell you to shut your cakehole; you're not helping. It's unquestionable that both OUO and PMF sell outstanding product, and now there's buzzing about Newton/Fat Boys and PMF's new bars, so let the customers decide what works for them and be happy with what you have.
It seems that almost every Ford Powerstroke Traction Bar thread degrades into the same nonsense, so I'm not the least bit surprised this one is too. Trevor/PMF/No Limit always takes the high road, which is nice to see and always refreshing, and says a lot about how their business is run. The "OUO Crew" needs to tone it down; you're NOT helping your "cause". Do a search of "traction bars" here and on the other Powerstroke related forums and you could easily think that some of the comments are coming from actual employees of OUO or TTP (and not customers) and if you don't think the combative, obnoxious and defensive nature of some those arguments isn't driving sales elsewhere, you're delusional.
I always have my big boy pants on, so if I decide to go with the Newton/Fat Boys or Trevor's/PMF new bars and they don't get the job done, y'all will be the first to know, and get to say "I told you so", which is all you're trying to do now, just "proactively"...
99% of the population out there won't even figure it out. Trust me I went from traction blocks/bars to a fully linked up rear with coil-overs and most people can't even tell the difference. LOL
They do make bars without the gussets. I actually kind of like those better now. They are real clean.
Again with the reading comprehension; you're interpreting my comments as singling you out specifically, which I've never done here or elsewhere. I'm speaking in generalities which has now caused you to become defensive...Ronin, I think you have some serious issues you need help with. I don't work for One Up Offroad. I am just a customer that is providing a feedback for a product I have purchased. I don't really know what I said on here that is so "combative, obnoxious and defensive?" What is wrong with not liking Newton bars? Obviously it really set you off for some reason. It is just my opinion and you can take it however you want.
What did Sak say that was so "combative, obnoxious and defensive?" He asked you a simple question and then provided a response that explained WHY he doesn't like those bars either. Nothing at all negative that I saw there.
You are the one making this thread into something more than just about traction bars.
I think this is what you would call, calling the kettle black.[/I]ANOTHER reading comprehension failure...it's turning into an epidemic.
The fanbois/shoprats/nut swingers here and elsewhere have done more to damage OUO's (and Marty's) sales and reputation than they probably could on their own. If you were my customers I'd tell you to shut your cakehole; you're not helping. It's unquestionable that both OUO and PMF sell outstanding product, and now there's buzzing about Newton/Fat Boys and PMF's new bars, so let the customers decide what works for them and be happy with what you have.
It seems that almost every Ford Powerstroke Traction Bar thread degrades into the same nonsense, so I'm not the least bit surprised this one is too.
The "OUO Crew" needs to tone it down; you're NOT helping your "cause".
Do a search of "traction bars" here and on the other Powerstroke related forums and you could easily think that some of the comments are coming from actual employees of OUO or TTP (and not customers) and if you don't think the combative, obnoxious and defensive nature of some those arguments isn't driving sales elsewhere, you're delusional.
Layson you have seem to be a pretty fervent OUO supporter. Are you involved with the company or just a friend or something? It looks like you are pretty close by location wise.
I consider him a friend and the guys that work for him are top notch. I have seen how much time, work, and money gets put into these products. He is always coming up with new awesome ideas. You got to support these folk!
The connection between Truck Toyz and me is that we have a mutual respect for each other. I help Marty out as much as I can, he does not pay me for anything that I do for him, whether it be here on the forums or out in the shop when I’m there.
Sak was a good customer who eventually became a great friend. His vehement support of our work and products is not the result of compensation (he doesn’t need our money) and/or blind allegiance. It is the result of respect for our shared principals. He sees firsthand the lengths to which we go to do things right. And he knows all too well Dave’s level of commitment to perfection. He is privy to a side of the equation that most people never get to see. I believe it is his respect for integrity and devotion to principals which fuels his passion in these on line debates. I feel very fortunate to consider him a friend.
I always have my big boy pants on, so if I decide to go with the Newton/Fat Boys or Trevor's/PMF new bars and they don't get the job done, y'all will be the first to know, and get to say "I told you so", which is all you're trying to do now, just "proactively"...
What did Sak say that was so "combative, obnoxious and defensive?" He asked you a simple question and then provided a response that explained WHY he doesn't like those bars either. Nothing at all negative that I saw there.
I've made recommendations to him to help him spend his money. When it came to traction bars he asked me, if I were him, what would I run. I said OUO and that's what he got. Now, in keeping in line with what I've been doing to my truck as opposed to his all along, I'm looking at other than OUO, and that's no disrespect to them, you, TTP/Marty, SAK or anyone that enjoys their product, but likewise that doesn't give anyone the right to start another free-for-all on ANY other vendor selling competing products either, or characterizing me as being less than informed for making said decision.
To me you are the drama. All I talked about was One Up Offroad bars and the main reason why I don't like the Newton bars.
You know that makes total sense to me. LOL
Yes I have seen them in person. There are other things I don't like about them as well, but just isn't worth mentioning. I can not get past the connection at the axle and let me tell you in person it stands out a lot more than the pictures.
You are making this into something that it was not.
Can you ellaborate on the connection at the axle? If I my vision is correct, they connect to the axle in nearly identical ways as the OUO.
We will go ahead and say the block and bracket at the axle are Identical because in all reality they are as close as can be. The only difference I see is that Newton uses HEIM style ends on the bars because instead of offsetting the frame bracket, he decided to mount it under the frame, so the bars do not run straight forwards and backwards, but rather go inwards just a bit, a very small bit that it isnt going to make a difference, but required HEIM style joints and not bushings that couldnt articulate side to side some. The bars are huge and are very heavy.
Ill go ahead and state that I am running Newton bars. They have performed very well. I am in no way associated with Newton, and I don't believe what I buy is the best. Im sure OUO bars are better in some kind of way. Do I believe its worth the cost difference? No, I went with something that would fit my needs and would mount to the axle in a way that it would send all force up the bars to the frame rather than have two mounts more towards the front of the axle that would have a twisting force. This is just where I stand.
Can you ellaborate on the connection at the axle? If I my vision is correct, they connect to the axle in nearly identical ways as the OUO..
We will go ahead and say the block and bracket at the axle are Identical because in all reality they are as close as can be. The only difference I see is that Newton uses HEIM style ends on the bars because instead of offsetting the frame bracket, he decided to mount it under the frame, so the bars do not run straight forwards and backwards, but rather go inwards just a bit, a very small bit that it isnt going to make a difference, but required HEIM style joints and not bushings that couldnt articulate side to side some. The bars are huge and are very heavy.
I think the ends are actually stronger than the bars themselves because it is tubing inside tubing therfor reinforcing the ends as it gets smaller until it gets to the nut the actual heim joints thread into. You are right about the blocks, they are kind of a bunch of flat bar plates (Im pretty sure 3/8") welded together. BUT, they function just as well as OUO Blocks, just dont have the "looks." So there is probably some cost knocked off the top. I know my frame mounts only have (2) 5/8" Grade 8 bolts, BUT as long as they are "Tight as hell", then there should never be any breaking because the shearing force required for them to break would never be met with the force of axle wrap. Im not taking anything offensive, I actually like argumental discussions because not everyone has the same or opinion and usually always gain information.