BTS hpops

Strokersace · Aug 22, 2012

What kind of oil temps do you guys running them see? What t-stat and coolant are you running? Higher than when you ran a single? Trying to determine if I have a problem.

Truck in Sig. 4.10 gears, stock tires. Last year when I went thru the top end of the motor, I rebuilt the oil cooler ( passages all looked great), flushed the entire coolant system and installed CAT ELC, installed a 180* t-stat, and switched to Schaeffer's 9000 5w-40.

I noticed on my last trip pulling the horse trailer, that my oil temps are running high. Well at least higher than I remember before last year and higher then I think they should be.

With setup in Sig, as well as details described above, 80mph highway speeds, pulling the trailer, 90+ ambient temp, I'm seeing 220* easily for oil temps. If I run the a/c at the same time, those oil temps jump to 230+. If I reduce speed to 70ish mph, oil temps drop 5 to 10* is same conditions.

Not pulling trailer, cruise set st 80, oil temps are 210ish no matter if ambient is 60 or 90. If I reduce speed to 70mph, oil temps drop to 200*.

I do not have a stand alone coolant gauge and the oil temps are read off of the scangauge.

Again not sure if temps I'm seeing are normal for BTS hpops or not? I feel like they should be lower with this t-stat. Only people with BTS or dual hpop hands on experience please!!

Strokersace · Aug 22, 2012

Tom S · Aug 22, 2012

FYI I believe the scan gauges read a little low on oil temps.

Strokersace · Aug 22, 2012

Oh that would not be good! Good to know Tom.

Dieselboy. · Aug 22, 2012

My scan gauge reads high.

I have an AM coolant temp with the probe on the water pump. The scan guage i usually 4-7* higher.

Stroker I would verify it with another gauge.

psmike · Aug 22, 2012

im running pretty much the same.. exc 33 inch tires an usually run 10 to 15 more than water temp..

TARM · Aug 23, 2012

First off do not get to worried 220-230 is nothing for out current oils today to be fine with and in. 250+ is time to get concerned. With that said your oil temps are higher than average.

I very much doubt it has anything to do with your HPOP itself. First thought is you have a oil cooler than is in need of cleaning and a rebuild. Its likely to some degree clogged.

But to narrow it down more info is needed:

What were your oil temps before you made all these changes or is the first time you have had oil temp sensor data?

As the oil temp are effected significantly by coolant temps what are your coolant temps running in ratio to oil temps. I.E. Oil/Coolant 220/? 195/? etc

Was your fan kicked on most of the time. (You know it when the clutch locks and the fan fully engages. Sounds like a jet turbine)

Normally with higher than normal oil temps and coolant temps in the normal range the first thing to suspect again is a clogged oil cooler in need of a rebuild and cleaning.

The 180 t-stat is not the answer IMO. The idea behind running one on a DD IMO does not make sense. There is a reason they came from Ford and IH with 195-203 tstat. In your situation at most if it helped at all it would only be addressing a symptom and not the real issue. Oil and coolant temps should run close to each other (15-20 degree). Oil temps below 190-195 will increase engine wear does not fully burn off condensation accumulation, is not up to the viscosity it was intended to run at etc... Best performance and longevity is found between 195-225.

Strokersace · Aug 23, 2012

TARM said:
First off do not get to worried 220-230 is nothing for out current oils today to be fine with and in. 250+ is time to get concerned. With that said your oil temps are higher than average.

I very much doubt it has anything to do with your HPOP itself. First thought is you have a oil cooler than is in need of cleaning and a rebuild. Its likely to some degree clogged.

But to narrow it down more info is needed:

What were your oil temps before you made all these changes or is the first time you have had oil temp sensor data?

As the oil temp are effected significantly by coolant temps what are your coolant temps running in ratio to oil temps. I.E. Oil/Coolant 220/? 195/? etc

Was your fan kicked on most of the time. (You know it when the clutch locks and the fan fully engages. Sounds like a jet turbine)

Normally with higher than normal oil temps and coolant temps in the normal range the first thing to suspect again is a clogged oil cooler in need of a rebuild and cleaning.

The 180 t-stat is not the answer IMO. The idea behind running one on a DD IMO does not make sense. There is a reason they came from Ford and IH with 195-203 tstat. In your situation at most if it helped at all it would only be addressing a symptom and not the real issue. Oil and coolant temps should run close to each other (15-20 degree). Oil temps below 190-195 will increase engine wear does not fully burn off condensation accumulation, is not up to the viscosity it was intended to run at etc... Best performance and longevity is found between 195-225.

Great info Tarm!!

It's hard to say on oil temps before as I wasn't pulling the trailer much before and that's where I really started noticing it. If memory serves me correctly oil temps were 188-190* cruising empty at 70-75mph. 220 when I did tow on highway. Using the scangauge as my data source.

Unfortunately, I have no exact data on coolant temps because the scangauge doesn't read it and I have no other specific gauge for it at this time.

The fan clutch seems to be working properly. I can hear it engaging and working, however, there's a possibility its not working to its full potential. It was new back in 2010, but with all replacement parts, its possible its not lasting. Also I rebuilt the oil cooler last year and the water passages looked great.

The only reason I have the 180* t-stat was to try it. I can and possibly will go back to the 195* in the future.

Again, before this summer, I remember oil temps being in the 190*-220* empty obviously on the lower end of that with towing being the upper. This was in cooler weather and 2000' lower elevation than I'm at now. Pulling the trailer long distances, multiple times across these higher elevation western mountain states and also living here in Colorado now at 5500' or so elevation, I see that range being 200*-230*+. Empty lower end of range, towing heavy on upper end of range.

CSIPSD · Aug 23, 2012

This is pulling my 34'TT up the grapevine in 92* heat... Once it hits 250 is just stops.

Strokersace · Aug 23, 2012

Joe, what t-stat is in the truck? Stock hpop, modded single, or duals?

CSIPSD · Aug 23, 2012

Strokersace said:
Joe, what t-stat is in the truck? Stock hpop, modded single, or duals?

Stock 195* stat, Modded single HPOP. 250/200 injectors. GVW is about 22k and the water was spraying that day, keeping the EGT's at about 1100-1200.

TARM · Aug 23, 2012

Try swapping back to the 195 and I bet there is no dif in peak temps as again wide open is wide open. My bet is a lot of these engines have oil coolers that are at least partially clogged and then add to that more power from the engines and us pushing loads faster with that power temps are going to go up during those times especially when you add in hot weather.

I just know from the testing I have read that I would rather have oil a bit warmer than colder. Oil does not even reach the rated SAE vis until 212 F degrees (100 C). If you look at the temps testing requirements of a number of the international oil ratings such as those put out by ILSAC which works along side API and its ratings mirror those in these standards its clear todays oils can take much hotter temps. Take the ILSAC GF-4 and API SM rating test as an example. ( now GF-5 and SM) One test bed takes running a 3.8 turbo engine keeping oil temp @ constant 300 degrees for 100 hrs straight. That would put peak oil temps at the top piston ring likley over 600 degrees. Most of the top CJ4 oils also meet or exceed the API SN/SM rating as well. In general diesel rated oils are seen as superior.

Look at what the top oils go thru to meet certs and you start to realize the temps we see are not that bad. IMO we need to be much more concerned with shearing and its it effect on the viscosity modifiers which can then lead to higher aeration conditions etc..

Blowby · Aug 23, 2012

Stock T-stat, BTS HPOP's and a few mods. I log 213-214 average on my oil temp while daily driving at 90-95 deg. days. When I stop to idle it will drop to 210 and stay there. I also have my block filled so no water circulation on the bottom where the oil slops around in the pan.

Strokersace · Aug 23, 2012

Blowby said:
Stock T-stat, BTS HPOP's and a few mods. I log 213-214 average on my oil temp while daily driving at 90-95 deg. days. When I stop to idle it will drop to 210 and stay there. I also have my block filled so no water circulation on the bottom where the oil slops around in the pan.

Thanks for the comparison Mike. Was going to call and talk to you bout this. Sounds like I'm within reason and my daily driving temps are less than yours. I'm guessing without blockfill, you be where I'm at for temps.

OSCS · Aug 23, 2012

I run 190* all the time no matter what speed or temp with 250/100, t500.. I wasn't aware 190* could be an issue. What could cause LOW oil temps?

Btw my sensor is reading just after the oil filter in the actual Housing.

TARM · Aug 24, 2012

190 is not bad its just at the low end of the ideal range so nothing to worry about. What is your coolant temps my guess is somewhere in the 195 range. All I would derive from it is you are not running things too hard and you have a properly functioning oil cooler.

The issue is when some have oil temps that never seem to get over 180 etc.. People that only drive very short trips where their engines never get up to full operating temps. It is why typically those that do short trips need to use a shorter OCI.

OSCS · Aug 24, 2012

TARM said:
190 is not bad its just at the low end of the ideal range so nothing to worry about. What is your coolant temps my guess is somewhere in the 195 range. All I would derive from it is you are not running things too hard and you have a properly functioning oil cooler.

The issue is when some have oil temps that never seem to get over 180 etc.. People that only drive very short trips where their engines never get up to full operating temps. It is why typically those that do short trips need to use a shorter OCI.

Yeah coolant temps are around 195, oil Cooler is working and I only drive for half an hour at a time for the most part. I'm not very hard on my truck and I always let the temps get to at least 180* before I even take it past half throttle.

pontiacross · Aug 24, 2012

I am running a bts pump and stock thermostat in my puller. I haven't had the scan gauge in it for a while but I dont remember ever seeing it much over 220, even when I was driving it on the street alot.

Strokersace · Aug 25, 2012

Mike, Ross, what oil are you running? It's been suggested I go back to a dino 15w-40 and see if it runs cooler. Like Mike posted, he's running 10* or so warmer across the band than I am with stick t-stat. I think he's running synthetic too.

Tarm suggested that oil temps would likely not change that much by going back to a stock 195* t-stat. So I makes me wonder if diff oil makes a difference or not. Used to run a stock t-stat with Mobil delvac 15w-40 and (although not 100% sure) I don't remember oil temps being as high as they are now.

TARM · Aug 25, 2012

I very much doubt you will see any change with a different oil. Tech thicker oil would cool slower and retain more heat not less but there are a ton of things at play I am sure with that given additives and what not. The issue IMO is your oil cooler as I suggested at the start. It is a common issue to have them either leaking or clogged to some degree. Not a hard fix either just some time to get it off. Again you temps are nothing crazy or something to loose sleep over imo but I am very picky as well and want things as good as they can be so I understand the attention you are paying to it.

Maybe I missed it but I do not see where you posted coolant temps vs oil temps as that will be a clear indicator of a oil cooler issue.

But 190-200 unloaded cruising is very normal as that is where your coolant would even warm the oil to and for a good reason as I explained. From the 200 F point it more becomes a issue of keeping the engine cool. The Tstat will open as much as needed to try and keep it at 195 and will be wide open by 220. The fact its wide open @ 220 is why if you are seeing temps above this as you report why a cooler Tstat can not have any effect on the constant average cruising temp. It would have been wide open sooner but the fact the temps are getting 10 degrees over that means it will not offer help. It will also keep the oil temps too cold in cooler weather and take longer to warm up.

IMO if the temp between coolant and oil @ a steady cruising state is more than 15 degrees apart its a possible indicator of oil cooler inefficiency. IF they are both inline but over all temps are too high its a indicator of either a coolant system issue and or exceeding the abilties of the system with too much load. Such as could happen when you increase the engines power then use it under heavy load for sustained periods.

If anyone would see this while cruising it would be Charles. If his temps stay inline then it would really have to point to a cooling system issue if oil and coolant temps are in proper ratio. Of course this all just my opinion based on what I know so take it for whats it worth.