Built 5R110 Issue

Frank_C · Jan 25, 2013

Ok, so a few months ago I burnt out the directs in my trans, and ended up having my transmission rebuilt by a reputable shop.

The parts that went into it is as follows:
Raybestos Stage 1 Frictions
Kolene Steels
(extra frictions in some areas, I forget the exact count)
TCS billet HD input(not the standard billet input)
TCS billet overdrive planetary(5 gear, not 4)
TCS billet intermediate shaft
TCS billet low/reverse ring gear
Modified direct solenoid
TransGo kit (the small one)
PI Billet converter

Amalie ATF
spec sheets:
http://amalie.com/files/Amalie_Universal_Synthetic_Automatic_Transmission_Fluid_Flyer.pdf
http://amalie.com/msds/Trans_web_pdfs_11-11/Universal Synthetic.pdf

Problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EW6SQvmNlM&list=UUSarig_9l8KDMaVQZyRwaBw&index=1

The torque converter will start to slip/unlock when it should be locked.

IE:
Scenario 1: I roll into the throttle at 50mph, but don't give it enough throttle to make it downshift, the rpm's will flare way above the input shaft speed, and I can keep them above the input shaft speed for multiple seconds, and it will not equalize.

Scenario 2: I go straight to wot from 85+mph. Same "slipping" happens.

I have Innovative v3.01 tunes, and Gearhead's tunes, and it happens on both.

Now this is where things get weird. A long time ago, when my stock trans worked fine, I could run any tune I wanted, and everything would be swell. The stock converter would not slip(at least noticeably). However, I decided to try and datalog trans info via my SCT livewire one night, about a year ago, and I had literally the exact same problem as I have now. But when I would unplug the sct, everything would go back to normal, and no unlocking/slipping.

All of the guys at the trans shop think it's tune related. And that if the converter was actually slipping when it should be locked, it would throw a dtc.

So...can anyone help me out?

Sorry for the long post, but I'm pretty stumped

MINK · Jan 25, 2013

I had that exact problem - weak pump and smoked clutches in my converter. Damn thing would just rev under wide open throttle at 100mph. Mine also would rev when I rolled into it after 55mph. Send the converter out and I promise you its smoked...

Edit: No codes here......oh and phuk these 5r's LOL

Frank_C · Jan 25, 2013

Was yours also a PI unit? And you mean the pump in the trans was also definitely bad?

Oh joy...$$$

Jhaddox · Jan 25, 2013

MINK said:
.oh and phuk these 5r's LOL

This

Sent from my SCH-I535

MINK · Jan 25, 2013

Frank_C said:
Was yours also a PI unit? And you mean the pump in the trans was also definitely bad?

Oh joy...$$$

My converter is a DPC unit, when Phil cut it open he advised my builder to replace the pump after his findings - Night and day difference in lockup after the new pump and fresh converter.

08BIGRIG · Jan 25, 2013

Frank your converter is actually slipping so bad that the tuning unlocks it because it is seeing so much slip where it should not be.

Frank_C · Jan 25, 2013

Ok. Thanks all.

I'm still confused about how the same problem would happen before while datalogging, but I'll try not to think about it I guess lol

So, can anyone confirm whether there is actually a dtc for a slipping converter or not? I haven't had any codes so far.

Fast-6.0 · Jan 25, 2013

You need to check pump pressure when the slipping occurs.

You could have a bad TCC solenoid also. Seen it before.

Fast-6.0 · Jan 25, 2013

Can you see the tach raise faster than normal in comparison to mph gains?

That way you know if its slipping or not.

Frank_C · Jan 25, 2013

Fast-6.0 said:
Can you see the tach raise faster than normal in comparison to mph gains?

That way you know if its slipping or not.

On the video I put up, the input shaft speed will stay pretty consistent in how fast it rises, and the rpm's flare up greatly. And yes, the mph also stays consistent when the rpm's jump.

Would checking pressure coming from the pump while slipping under lockup tell whether the pump is good or not?

MINK · Jan 25, 2013

Fast-6.0 said:
You need to check pump pressure when the slipping occurs.

You could have a bad TCC solenoid also. Seen it before.

Great point - I did replace mine before pulling the trans out and finding the bad converter.

Start there forsure.

Frank_C · Jan 25, 2013

^I'm not sure whether you're talking about checking pump pressure, or the tcc solenoid, but they do have a solenoid tester they used to test the solenoids when they rebuilt the trans.

Fast-6.0 · Jan 25, 2013

Based on what you are saying sounds like for sure that the converter is slipping.

Check pump pressure, if its over 150psi when you are on it hard then you are fine.

Pull the converter, make sure the seal on the stator support is good.

Have the converter fixed. Put in a new tcc solenoid. Probably do an internal wiring harness also to be safe.

MINK · Jan 25, 2013

Frank_C said:
^I'm not sure whether you're talking about checking pump pressure, or the tcc solenoid, but they do have a solenoid tester(flow check type deal) they used to test the solenoids when they rebuilt the trans.

Solenoid.

After swaping mine to no avail I decided it had to be a pump/clutch issue resulting in the trans being pulled. I never checked line pressure prior to pulling though as I didnt see there being any other "easy" fix.

08BIGRIG · Jan 25, 2013

You most likely will not get a dtc when the converter starts slipping. I didnt get one at least when mine chit the bed. You can hook your truck up to the Ford IDS and see you actual slip in every gear for what it should be compared to what it is.

BogginF350 · Jan 25, 2013

Is the converter feed plugged? The one in the case. Also did they replace the $40 screen separator plate?

BogginF350 · Jan 25, 2013

This is why I build every 5r that comes through the shop myself. But again, a 5r is only as good as your cal.

Frank_C · Feb 7, 2013

Little update:
The shop has been working on it and trying to figure it out for me. They said that the main pressure when cruising with the converter locked is ~250psi, and drops to ~200psi when they get into the throttle and the converter starts to slip/unlock. Does that sound about right, and does it rule out the possibility of a bad pump? Any other ideas of what it could be? They also swapped out the tcc solenoid and a few others, and nothing changed. And they did verify that the Ecu is sensing slip, and then unlocking he converter.

After spending almost $8k on this trans build which started nearly 3 months ago I just want it back up and running how I expect it to. And I really don't want to just throw more money at it in hopes it will fix it.