Detuning large injector nozzles - How to pick injector size for upgrades!

[superpsd]

In less than a month I'll be hunting up at the cabin where it gets "cold" and ill get to try out 200% nozzles on a stock tune. Ill get a video and post it up. I will also bring my laptop to play woth cold start tuning to see how well they can start cold. The only differnece at idle with a stock tune from my daily tune is timing.

 

[m_j]

never had an issue starting cold. ******** tunes.
when its cold out you get white vapour constantly from just about any diesel

 

[mandkole]

SPSD,
are your tune changes linked to oil temp? Im still trying to understand the operational changes as related to oil temp and how steep or shallow the changes go with temp.. right now my PCM always thinks the oil is at 75F when it could be 30F.

 

[superpsd]

There are like 8 or so tables in the calibrations (maybe more depending on year?) that have to do with EOT. These multipliers are compensating for mechanical delay cause by cold oil which has effect on things like SOI and quantiy of fuel delivered etc etc... On my DD tune i have yet to really mess with multipliers as of yet.

 

[superpsd]

As I said back a while ago I would post a 200% nozzle cold start video when it actually got cold. This was shot at sunrise about 32 degrees and it was down to about 25 degrees during the night. I have filmed a few cold starts down into the 20s but it was too dark out to get good enough capture of the cold haze/vapor. This is almost a factory calibration and in fact all the areas that have to do with idle are 100% identical to a stock calibration. It goes clear after a few minutes of idle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX_XZaTB3r8

 

[Swaan]

Man i wish my crap 175/80 pis injectors idled thst clean on a cold start like that.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

Man i wish my crap 175/80 pis injectors idled thst clean on a cold start like that.

Why don't you ask your tuner why your injectors only haze when the temps are cold?

I mean I'm no rocket sicentist but I have never understood how anyone could blame this on a mechanical part.

Oil temp normal/high no haze. Oil temp low haze. Oil viscosity map that inputs to soi. Gee I wonder.

 

[cjfarm111]

Swaan who's tunes are you running again?

 

[Swaan]

Ive exausted trying to tune the haze .

Ive probley got at least a $1000 invested in diffrent tunes from about 4 diffrent tuners.

******** has done the most and honestly im done bugging him as i feel guilty wasting his time.
I got swamps tunes there no better.
Power hungry tunes, yup no better.
Tony wild man, yup no better.
Theres probley some more i cant remember.
Every one of thses tuners ive informed about my issue and nothing seems to help.


Geez no rocket science eh.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

And when the weather turns warmer you don't have an issue??

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Why don't you ask your tuner why your injectors only haze when the temps are cold?

I mean I'm no rocket sicentist but I have never understood how anyone could blame this on a mechanical part.

Oil temp normal/high no haze. Oil temp low haze. Oil viscosity map that inputs to soi. Gee I wonder.

Haze when cold make complete sense if you have a compression issue (which is also mechanical).
You are the injector builder, but couldn't it also be due to a oil quality/oil side of the injector tolerance issue causing poor nozzle pressure? Could also be way off line, but seems to be there are other options other than tuning.

However we have seen time and time again where tuning does play a big roll in it.

 

[TyCorr]

Im with Tim on this. My dynoproven tunes smoke oretty bad in cold temps. After it runs for a minuten like a light switch, it'll change sound and the blue/white fuel haze instantly vanishes.

My php tunes only did it in the race and performance tunes.

 

[TyCorr]

https://youtu.be/9nhXU8FYQJs

Full transparency. I went out to start the truck just to record the process. As luck would have it, its the hardest cold start ive probably ever had lol. As stated in the vidja, it usually starts right up if you ket the gp's go. Anything 10 or above and you can basically start it like a gasser.

This is about 45 seconds or so after the start. Pretty heavy smoke with fuel smell. Results may vary.
https://youtu.be/RJKic5cSCXM

 

[Swaan]

Its gotta be perty warm before it wont haze.
Middle of summer i can be at a camp site with my travel trailer. On a cooler morning maybe 55-60 it smokes for 10 min while warming up. Its embarrassing. Lol i actually plug my truck in at the camp site just to avoid this.
It

 

[Swaan]

Haze when cold make complete sense if you have a compression issue (which is also mechanical).
You are the injector builder, but couldn't it also be due to a oil quality/oil side of the injector tolerance issue causing poor nozzle pressure? Could also be way off line, but seems to be there are other options other than tuning.

However we have seen time and time again where tuning does play a big roll in it.

Of course it can be mechanical issue. Compression plays a huge role yes. Not my issue thou. Compleat new long block. Did this since day one. Compression is all very even and in the 415 psi range. Give or take 10 psi.

The only thing i havent had done is live tuning. There is a guy here local im thinking getting him to do it when weather gets bettrr.
If that dont fix it these injectors are coming out.

 

[superpsd]

Different nozzle sizes have different manufacturing processes right? How come the 80% nozzles seem to have more bad reviews.

 

[TyCorr]

Different nozzle sizes have different manufacturing processes right? How come the 80% nozzles seem to have more bad reviews.

Haaaaa! My 80s were clean as a whistle. 175/80s and 38r. Not a worry in the world. 400whp all day without a hint of smoke. But much more than that and it started to smoke and egts would get high from long pw demands. So i had it pulled to where it stayed clean and cool. Which is far less hp wise than people claim an ac is good for.

I had them gone through after srp1.1, explosion number 1. Had 100s put on. Idle wasnt as good. Egts were harder to control. I wasnt a fan. They'd test fine but thise nozzles are smoothed out 80s and they seem to lose consistency in the process. I know, i know. Tons of people love them. I did not. 80s and 200s are the best imo. 200 being my fave.

My 80s idled like stock even without single shot tuning.

To address your comment about manufacturing processes; sort of. Afaik stock, 30, 80,200, and 400 are virgin nozzles. The hundy is an 80 that is extrude honed out to 100. The 300 is an extrude honed 200.

 

[lincolnlocker]

when are people going to realize that all diesels without a *** smoke on a cold start.. my fuggin 6.7 smokes like a freight train when it is in the low teens.. gives off a small puff of for a few seconds when temps are any higher up to 40-50°.. my dually, even having a brand new motor, smokes from 60° down.. supposedly all I need is a lil more idle timing but im not worried about it..


swaans might be a bit excessive, but he also had issues with a 38r soooo, maybe something else is up..

live tuning goes a long long ways.. my dually was very finicky at first.. that's why it made the trip to beans to have Jonathan live tune it.. turned it into a completely different truck..

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass

 

[TyCorr]

Right on Jake. All things taken into account, i dont think mine smokes that bad at -7 for what im running.

 

[Swaan]

Hey jake. I know diesels smoke when its cold. My wifes 6.0 smokes when cold my dads duramax hazes when cold . My series 60 detroit hazes when cold .
Diffrence being my 7.3 hazes waaaay more then is normal and takes long time to clear.....

For the record, never owned a 38R in my life. Had a regular s366 that was just as much as a turd thou.

Im 99% sure these injectors have issues.